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Line names and designations

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Line names and designations 16/10/2018 at 17:14 #112683
geswedey
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Following on from a thread in West Hampstead re UP and DOWN LINES

Line names are equally interesting

Main and Electric Lines from Liverpool Street to Shenfield, they are all electrified of course but the initially Electric trains only ran from Liverpool Street to Shenfield on these lines with class 306 units being used with the remaining services retaining Steam

My favourites however are on the old GWR with the freight only lines near Acton connecting the GWR with the North London Line being called the UP and DOWN POPLAR as until the docks closed this was the route used by goods trains to and from the docks via Poplar some of this line is now used by the DLR, one of my old colleagues was an LNER fireman and he stated during the second world war this line was so busy that you could spend an entire shift and hardly move.

Also the alleged story that the GWR had FAST and RELIEF lines because they didn't want to use the word SLOW.

Last edited: 16/10/2018 at 17:16 by geswedey
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Line names and designations 16/10/2018 at 17:36 #112684
MarkC
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geswedey in post 112683 said:
Main and Electric Lines from Liverpool Street to Shenfield, they are all electrified of course but the initially Electric trains only ran from Liverpool Street to Shenfield on these lines with class 306 units being used with the remaining services retaining Steam.

In the days of GER the GE lines before electrification were originally called Though and Local lines, when they were electicfied even though all lines were done the electric trains which operated the Shenfield services were maninly confined to the local lines and mainly on platforms 14-18 at Liverpool Street.

It's not my fault! I was left unsupervised.
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Line names and designations 16/10/2018 at 20:09 #112691
Muzer
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The GWR actually uses "main" and "relief". The Met I believe uses "main" and "local". At Liverpool Street since the West Anglia and Great Northern routes converge, you end up with (from north/west to south/east) the "suburban", "fast", "main", and "electric" lines!

I also enjoy the lines around Doncaster which have baffling names like the "up west/down west slow" ("Oh what fun, it is to ride on the up west/down west slow!").

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Line names and designations 16/10/2018 at 20:31 #112693
geswedey
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old age catching up on me re GWR I use it often enough to know the correct designations

Waterloo is fun for line names

And Stansted Airport is also interesting more to follow when I get home.

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Line names and designations 16/10/2018 at 21:49 #112694
Splodge
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I'm route learning Preston at the moment - it's a cracker, with an Up Goods, Down Goods, 'Up and Down Goods' and 'Down and Up Goods'. Plus an Up Through and a Down Through which are both actually platform lines (6 and 5 respectively). Not confusing at all!
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Line names and designations 16/10/2018 at 22:17 #112695
Steamer
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Splodge in post 112694 said:
I'm route learning Preston at the moment - it's a cracker, with an Up Goods, Down Goods, 'Up and Down Goods' and 'Down and Up Goods'. Plus an Up Through and a Down Through which are both actually platform lines (6 and 5 respectively). Not confusing at all!
I love the fact that the Sectional Appendix still refuses to admit the existence of platform 7 (on the 'Up and Down Goods', adjacent to P6 for anyone unfamiliar), despite charter trains using it and the odd passenger working when things are up the spout...

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 16/10/2018 at 22:33 by Steamer
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Line names and designations 17/10/2018 at 10:41 #112697
Splodge
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It's a bit of an odd one - generally the consensus is that you'd query it on a passenger service as it is a short platform with no real facilities. In both directions the signal will pull of with an 'L' in the route indicator rather than a number as for every other platform; it seems to occupy a bit of a grey area!
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Line names and designations 17/10/2018 at 19:40 #112706
Forest Pines
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Muzer in post 112691 said:
The GWR actually uses "main" and "relief". The Met I believe uses "main" and "local". At Liverpool Street since the West Anglia and Great Northern routes converge, you end up with (from north/west to south/east) the "suburban", "fast", "main", and "electric" lines!

I also enjoy the lines around Doncaster which have baffling names like the "up west/down west slow" ("Oh what fun, it is to ride on the up west/down west slow!").
Isn't there a short stretch near Kirk Sandall which is four tracks, two for one direction and two for the other direction, but three are Up lines and only one is a Down line?

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Line names and designations 17/10/2018 at 19:56 #112707
Late Turn
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Forest Pines in post 112706 said:
lIsn't there a short stretch near Kirk Sandall which is four tracks, two for one direction and two for the other direction, but three are Up lines and only one is a Down line?

Yes, as far as I can see, the Down Slow becomes the Up South Yorkshire after the facing crossover to the fast line, after which there’s no access towards Doncaster directly.

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Line names and designations 23/10/2018 at 11:32 #112834
kbarber
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The old Southern Railway (and BR(S) for some time after 1948) used 'through' and 'local' for their line designations. Between Waterloo and Clapham Junction there are of course two separate groups of lines, the mains and the Windsors. Therefore the route indicators controlling departure from Waterloo used to show ML, MT, WL and WT (now altered, since the resignalling, to MS, MF, WS and WF).

The LNER used to use 'Main' and 'Independent' rather than 'main' & 'goods', although I suspect many lever designations were never thus altered. I believe those designations originated on the North Eastern Railway.

But of course the Swedey, like the Gas Works Railway, was a law unto itself...

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Line names and designations 23/10/2018 at 15:31 #112838
KymriskaDraken
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Muzer in post 112691 said:
The Met I believe uses "main" and "local".
I think Main and Local are used in other places on LUL - Earls Court for instance. And of course you have Inner and Outer on the Circle Line. I believe the Tyne & Wear Metro uses In and Out.

Kev

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Line names and designations 23/10/2018 at 20:20 #112844
Muzer
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kbarber in post 112834 said:
The old Southern Railway (and BR(S) for some time after 1948) used 'through' and 'local' for their line designations. Between Waterloo and Clapham Junction there are of course two separate groups of lines, the mains and the Windsors. Therefore the route indicators controlling departure from Waterloo used to show ML, MT, WL and WT (now altered, since the resignalling, to MS, MF, WS and WF).
Actually the lines one signal out of Waterloo are (from east to west) the down main slow, up main slow, down main fast, up main fast, up main relief (which is bidirectional), down Windsor, up Windsor, Windsor reversible. I'm not sure exactly what the route indicators display for all of these (though MS and MF are definitely correct).

After the first signal (protecting Carlisle Lane Jn) the up main relief becomes the down Windsor slow and the down Windsor becomes the down Windsor fast.

After the Stewarts Lane Curve the down Windsor slow and fast merge into the down Windsor.

After the Brighton Main Line bridge, the down Windsor splits again into the down Windsor slow and fast.

Finally, after Clapham West London Jn, the up Windsor becomes the up Windsor fast, and the Windsor reversible becomes the up Windsor slow.

ISTR there are plans to bring the Windsor lines down to 2-3 tracks instead of 3-4 as present, and use the remaining track to extend the up main relief all the way back to Clapham Junction. I might be slightly wrong on this though...

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Line names and designations 23/10/2018 at 20:40 #112845
JamesN
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Muzer in post 112844 said:
kbarber in post 112834 said:
The old Southern Railway (and BR(S) for some time after 1948) used 'through' and 'local' for their line designations. Between Waterloo and Clapham Junction there are of course two separate groups of lines, the mains and the Windsors. Therefore the route indicators controlling departure from Waterloo used to show ML, MT, WL and WT (now altered, since the resignalling, to MS, MF, WS and WF).
Actually the lines one signal out of Waterloo are (from east to west) the down main slow, up main slow, down main fast, up main fast, up main relief (which is bidirectional), down Windsor, up Windsor, Windsor reversible. I'm not sure exactly what the route indicators display for all of these (though MS and MF are definitely correct).

After the first signal (protecting Carlisle Lane Jn) the up main relief becomes the down Windsor slow and the down Windsor becomes the down Windsor fast.

After the Stewarts Lane Curve the down Windsor slow and fast merge into the down Windsor.

After the Brighton Main Line bridge, the down Windsor splits again into the down Windsor slow and fast.

Finally, after Clapham West London Jn, the up Windsor becomes the up Windsor fast, and the Windsor reversible becomes the up Windsor slow.

ISTR there are plans to bring the Windsor lines down to 2-3 tracks instead of 3-4 as present, and use the remaining track to extend the up main relief all the way back to Clapham Junction. I might be slightly wrong on this though...
That's only the post-Eurostar arrangement. In Mr Barbers' era of working signalboxes in the area It was straight DMS-UMS-DMF-UMF-DWS-DWF-UWF-UWS.

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Line names and designations 23/10/2018 at 22:43 #112847
Muzer
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Oh, I hadn't realised there had been two lots of changes at Waterloo in recent decades — but thinking about it I guess that makes sense. Cheers!

(Though I think I'm right in thinking that it's never been eight track the whole way — I believe the seven-track bottleneck used to be the Brighton Main Line bridge? And nowadays it's longer due to the Eurostar flyover.)

Last edited: 23/10/2018 at 22:44 by Muzer
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Line names and designations 24/10/2018 at 08:08 #112853
clive
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KymriskaDraken in post 112838 said:

I think Main and Local are used in other places on LUL - Earls Court for instance.
I was going to object, but Quail agrees with you, somewhat to my surprise. The central two tracks (Upminster direction) are the Main and the outer two (Edgware Road direction) the Local. You live and learn.

Hammersmith to Acton Town is shown as Fast (Piccadilly tracks) and Local (District tracks).

KymriskaDraken in post 112838 said:

And of course you have Inner and Outer on the Circle Line.
Also on the Central Line between Leytonstone and Woodford the long way round.

KymriskaDraken in post 112838 said:

I believe the Tyne & Wear Metro uses In and Out.
"Out" is clockwise round the coast line and "In" is anticlockwise. These directions then continue further away, so it's "Out" all the way from South Shields to St.James or to the airport. (The Sunderland and South Hylton branch uses "Up" and "Down", so a train from South Hylton starts as "Down" and them becomes "Out" at Pelaw.

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Line names and designations 24/10/2018 at 11:14 #112854
Steamer
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Manchester Metrolink uses 'Inbound' and 'Outbound', all with respect to the triangle junction at Piccadilly Gardens in the centre of Manchester.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Line names and designations 24/10/2018 at 14:30 #112855
Sacro
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Steamer in post 112854 said:
Manchester Metrolink uses 'Inbound' and 'Outbound', all with respect to the triangle junction at Piccadilly Gardens in the centre of Manchester.
How does that work on the 2CC via Exchange Square?

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Line names and designations 25/10/2018 at 10:15 #112865
metcontrol
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KymriskaDraken in post 112838 said:
I think Main and Local are used in other places on LUL - Earls Court for instance. And of course you have Inner and Outer on the Circle Line. I believe the Tyne & Wear Metro uses In and Out.

Kev
On the Met Line between Wembley Park and Harrow-on-the-Hill we have fast and local lines. North of Harrow these become local and main lines. When referring to a Chiltern service on our patch we still use Up (southbound) and Down (northbound).
We have a few other oddities, but mostly only related to a directional (north/south/east/westbound) reference rather than anything relating to the destination the line is headed. For example, everything that leaves Aldgate station heads westbound...

Last edited: 25/10/2018 at 10:15 by metcontrol
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