Replies to telephone calls

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Replies to telephone calls 16/01/2019 at 18:00 #114811
bugsy
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How difficult would it be to introduce an additional answer into the list of replies given to drivers?

Whilst playing the Derby sim with the Difficult mode selected, I had numerous phone calls from drivers saying that they were waiting at a red signal. This was mainly due to track circuit failures. Now knowing that these failures could last for quite a time, it was frustrating that I could only ask them to wait 15 minutes for the signal to clear before phoning back. I would imagine that in real life they would be told what the delay was and to just be patient.

At this point I haven’t thought about what wording would be suitable, but I bet that someone out there could make a few suggestions.

Anybody game?

Edit: I know that you can talk them past the TC failure in the first instance, but at one point I had about 9 or 10 drivers calling up every 15 minutes.

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
Last edited: 16/01/2019 at 18:13 by bugsy
Reason: Additional text

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Replies to telephone calls 16/01/2019 at 18:23 #114813
KymriskaDraken
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Sorry Drive the job's up the wall at the moment. You'll be there for a while so screw 'er down amd admire the scenery.


Kev

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Replies to telephone calls 16/01/2019 at 18:23 #114814
JamesN
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Nowadays, with GSM-R and ways/means of the signaller contacting the driver I'd agree with you. But that's only a very modern (last few years) invention. Previously drivers would have to check in regularly as the signaller would have no way of contacting them.

Dealing with lots of calls is part of the job - tune it out and prioritise. There's no score for the fastest answered telephone call.

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Replies to telephone calls 16/01/2019 at 19:17 #114816
Meld
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KymriskaDraken in post 114813 said:
Sorry Drive the job's up the wall at the moment. You'll be there for a while so screw 'er down amd admire the scenery.


Kev
I assume that is a post translated message of the more normal message

Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!!
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Replies to telephone calls 16/01/2019 at 19:37 #114817
KymriskaDraken
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Meld in post 114816 said:
KymriskaDraken in post 114813 said:
Sorry Drive the job's up the wall at the moment. You'll be there for a while so screw 'er down amd admire the scenery.


Kev
I assume that is a post translated message of the more normal message ;)
It's the before the watershed version.

Kev

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Replies to telephone calls 16/01/2019 at 19:38 #114818
KymriskaDraken
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JamesN in post 114814 said:
Nowadays, with GSM-R and ways/means of the signaller contacting the driver I'd agree with you. But that's only a very modern (last few years) invention. Previously drivers would have to check in regularly as the signaller would have no way of contacting them.

Dealing with lots of calls is part of the job - tune it out and prioritise. There's no score for the fastest answered telephone call.
Nowadays the Driver is probably better informed than the Signalman.

"So Drive when your Control tells you what's going on can you give me a shout to let *me* know?"


Kev

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Replies to telephone calls 16/01/2019 at 20:48 #114819
bugsy
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JamesN in post 114814 said:
Nowadays, with GSM-R and ways/means of the signaller contacting the driver I'd agree with you. But that's only a very modern (last few years) invention. Previously drivers would have to check in regularly as the signaller would have no way of contacting them.
But were're talking about 2015 with the Derby scenario that I'm playing and there are a lot more modern era sims as well. In what era would the signaller have become aware of these faults? As a matter of interest, what would today's signaller tell the driver? I doubt he would just say phone back in 15 minutes.
Now, I know as much about coding as I do about chemistry, i.e. nothing, so if it's not possible, I'll put up with the phone calls as long as I'm given enough time to go to the loo, although there is always the pause button isn't there?

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
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Replies to telephone calls 16/01/2019 at 21:05 #114820
TUT
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bugsy in post 114819 said:
JamesN in post 114814 said:
Nowadays, with GSM-R and ways/means of the signaller contacting the driver I'd agree with you. But that's only a very modern (last few years) invention. Previously drivers would have to check in regularly as the signaller would have no way of contacting them.
But were're talking about 2015 with the Derby scenario that I'm playing and there are a lot more modern era sims as well. In what era would the signaller have become aware of these faults? As a matter of interest, what would today's signaller tell the driver? I doubt he would just say phone back in 15 minutes.
Now, I know as much about coding as I do about chemistry, i.e. nothing, so if it's not possible, I'll put up with the phone calls as long as I'm given enough time to go to the loo, although there is always the pause button isn't there?
The rule book (S4) states that the driver should contact the signaller again every five minutes, unless alternative arrangements have been agreed

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Replies to telephone calls 17/01/2019 at 08:56 #114826
kbarber
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TUT in post 114820 said:
bugsy in post 114819 said:
JamesN in post 114814 said:
Nowadays, with GSM-R and ways/means of the signaller contacting the driver I'd agree with you. But that's only a very modern (last few years) invention. Previously drivers would have to check in regularly as the signaller would have no way of contacting them.
But were're talking about 2015 with the Derby scenario that I'm playing and there are a lot more modern era sims as well. In what era would the signaller have become aware of these faults? As a matter of interest, what would today's signaller tell the driver? I doubt he would just say phone back in 15 minutes.
Now, I know as much about coding as I do about chemistry, i.e. nothing, so if it's not possible, I'll put up with the phone calls as long as I'm given enough time to go to the loo, although there is always the pause button isn't there?
The rule book (S4) states that the driver should contact the signaller again every five minutes, unless alternative arrangements have been agreed
So what about a 'call back in <blank that the operator fills in> minutes option, for those really [railway equivalent of awful] days? (Of course, you run the risk, if you select too-long a time, that you end up needing to contact that driver. Waiting for him to ring back then creates the next disruption of your day, without a single failure in sight. But hey, that's the way it goes on this job.)

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Replies to telephone calls 17/01/2019 at 10:04 #114828
bugsy
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kbarber in post 114826 said:


So what about a 'call back in <blank that the operator fills in> minutes option, for those really [railway equivalent of awful] days? (Of course, you run the risk, if you select too-long a time, that you end up needing to contact that driver. Waiting for him to ring back then creates the next disruption of your day, without a single failure in sight. But hey, that's the way it goes on this job.)
Or, when he originally phones in, just ask him to be patient and wait for a proceed aspect.

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
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Replies to telephone calls 17/01/2019 at 10:55 #114829
pedroathome
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bugsy in post 114828 said:
kbarber in post 114826 said:


So what about a 'call back in <blank that the operator fills in> minutes option, for those really [railway equivalent of awful] days? (Of course, you run the risk, if you select too-long a time, that you end up needing to contact that driver. Waiting for him to ring back then creates the next disruption of your day, without a single failure in sight. But hey, that's the way it goes on this job.)
Or, when he originally phones in, just ask him to be patient and wait for a proceed aspect.
What about if there is a good reason you woulden't be able to get a proceed aspect?

For example, been points failure in advance, and between that, a track dropping. Points get fixed, now you'd still have to wait for the track to be fixed before being able to authroise the train past the signal at danger.

Or, if the signal you have routed upto is a fixed red. Possibly wrong routed, or other cause. Accidently telling the driver to wait the signal until it clears then would mean game over without, shall we say, SimSig cheaty tools like F2.

James

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Replies to telephone calls 17/01/2019 at 11:56 #114831
Splodge
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It depends how realistic the telephone simulation can be - currently drivers don't ordinarily call in when detained at signals, we just press a button on the GSMR unit which lets the signaller know we're waiting - they can then send back a 'wait' message, call the driver directly or send an instruction to contact them; so in the above situation the signaller would now get in touch with the driver and let them know of the issue or change to previous instructions.
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Replies to telephone calls 17/01/2019 at 14:32 #114832
clive
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kbarber in post 114826 said:

So what about a 'call back in <blank that the operator fills in> minutes option, for those really [railway equivalent of awful] days?
Certainly that's possible. It's a core code change, so if someone puts it in Mantis it might happen one day.

kbarber in post 114826 said:

(Of course, you run the risk, if you select too-long a time, that you end up needing to contact that driver. Waiting for him to ring back then creates the next disruption of your day, without a single failure in sight. But hey, that's the way it goes on this job.)
At present the driver is always attentively watching the signal waiting for it to clear, no matter how long the wait. I think there's a Mantis entry somewhere to make her less attentive for the first part of the wait.

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Replies to telephone calls 17/01/2019 at 15:54 #114834
Redbusman
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You can authorise a driver to pass signal at danger / examine the line without waiting for the driver to call first using the F2 screen. Right click >signalling options.
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Replies to telephone calls 17/01/2019 at 17:15 #114836
postal
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Redbusman in post 114834 said:
You can authorise a driver to pass signal at danger / examine the line without waiting for the driver to call first using the F2 screen. Right click >signalling options.
I think that is perhaps what pedroathome meant when he wrote "SimSig cheaty tools like F2".

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Replies to telephone calls 17/01/2019 at 20:12 #114839
lazzer
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JamesN in post 114814 said:
Nowadays, with GSM-R and ways/means of the signaller contacting the driver I'd agree with you. But that's only a very modern (last few years) invention. Previously drivers would have to check in regularly as the signaller would have no way of contacting them.

Dealing with lots of calls is part of the job - tune it out and prioritise. There's no score for the fastest answered telephone call.
Simsiggers who have been playing for a year or more may have noticed that as soon as a train comes to a stand at a red signal, you receive a message notifying you that its waiting there (without a phone call). This, I can only assume, is a simulation of the driver pressing the SG button on the GSM-R, which is the way we let a signaller know we're stood at a red signal in the first instance if no emergency has taken place. So, as far as I'm concerned, the game already acknowledges that GSM-R exists, and that drivers are using it correctly.

But I agree that it would be nice to have a more flexible driver-to-signaller interface (as no doubt some manager or other on the railway would call it) so we could tell the buggers to stop calling in all the time.

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Replies to telephone calls 17/01/2019 at 20:35 #114840
GeoffM
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The "phone" is meant to be a generic communications device, be it GSM-R, an SPT, a radio, or some other form.

If an option to wait "X" minutes is added, firstly I would want to limit it; secondly, as Clive mentioned, there a train told to wait (say) 15 minutes and then given the signal after 1 should not move immediately.

SimSig Boss
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Replies to telephone calls 17/01/2019 at 20:57 #114842
bugsy
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postal in post 114836 said:
Redbusman in post 114834 said:
You can authorise a driver to pass signal at danger / examine the line without waiting for the driver to call first using the F2 screen. Right click >signalling options.
I think that is perhaps what pedroathome meant when he wrote "SimSig cheaty tools like F2".
Yes, I understand that you can do this in certain circumstances and I admit to doing it (reluctantly) on several occasions. However, in my Derby scenario, it would have been good if I could have told the drivers 'just to wait'. They simply couldn't go anywhere until the points failure had been rectified.

clive in post 114832 said:
kbarber in post 114826 said:

So what about a 'call back in <blank that the operator fills in> minutes option, for those really [railway equivalent of awful] days?
Certainly that's possible. It's a core code change, so if someone puts it in Mantis it might happen one day.
This would be good. Obviously, you’d have to make an educated guess regarding the time that you filled in, based on the following, but not necssarily limited to, things like where you have the ‘sliders’ set in F3 Failures, where the failure is and the amount of disruption it’s causing. You’d have to be careful though.

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
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Replies to telephone calls 17/01/2019 at 22:40 #114843
KymriskaDraken
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bugsy in post 114828 said:
kbarber in post 114826 said:


So what about a 'call back in <blank that the operator fills in> minutes option, for those really [railway equivalent of awful] days? (Of course, you run the risk, if you select too-long a time, that you end up needing to contact that driver. Waiting for him to ring back then creates the next disruption of your day, without a single failure in sight. But hey, that's the way it goes on this job.)
Or, when he originally phones in, just ask him to be patient and wait for a proceed aspect.
IRL the Signalman would probably say something like "We have a XXXXXX failure up ahead. Wait for the signal please Drive and if you are still there in X minutes call me back".

Kev

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Replies to telephone calls 17/01/2019 at 22:44 #114844
KymriskaDraken
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lazzer in post 114839 said:
JamesN in post 114814 said:
Nowadays, with GSM-R and ways/means of the signaller contacting the driver I'd agree with you. But that's only a very modern (last few years) invention. Previously drivers would have to check in regularly as the signaller would have no way of contacting them.

Dealing with lots of calls is part of the job - tune it out and prioritise. There's no score for the fastest answered telephone call.
Simsiggers who have been playing for a year or more may have noticed that as soon as a train comes to a stand at a red signal, you receive a message notifying you that its waiting there (without a phone call). This, I can only assume, is a simulation of the driver pressing the SG button on the GSM-R, which is the way we let a signaller know we're stood at a red signal in the first instance if no emergency has taken place. So, as far as I'm concerned, the game already acknowledges that GSM-R exists, and that drivers are using it correctly.

But I agree that it would be nice to have a more flexible driver-to-signaller interface (as no doubt some manager or other on the railway would call it) so we could tell the buggers to stop calling in all the time. :)
In pre-GSM days the Driver was always on the SPT quickly if you stopped him by accident, but stayed in the cab if you needed him on the phone to give him instructions! Drivers always used to swear (and may well still do) that each signal was equipped with a pressure pad that allowed the Signalman to pull off as soon as the Driver set foot near the signal.

Kev

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Replies to telephone calls 17/01/2019 at 22:48 #114845
KymriskaDraken
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pedroathome in post 114829 said:
bugsy in post 114828 said:
kbarber in post 114826 said:


So what about a 'call back in <blank that the operator fills in> minutes option, for those really [railway equivalent of awful] days? (Of course, you run the risk, if you select too-long a time, that you end up needing to contact that driver. Waiting for him to ring back then creates the next disruption of your day, without a single failure in sight. But hey, that's the way it goes on this job.)
Or, when he originally phones in, just ask him to be patient and wait for a proceed aspect.
What about if there is a good reason you woulden't be able to get a proceed aspect?

For example, been points failure in advance, and between that, a track dropping. Points get fixed, now you'd still have to wait for the track to be fixed before being able to authroise the train past the signal at danger.

Or, if the signal you have routed upto is a fixed red. Possibly wrong routed, or other cause. Accidently telling the driver to wait the signal until it clears then would mean game over without, shall we say, SimSig cheaty tools like F2.

James
IRL a Driver probably wouldn't just sit there for hours on end waiting for a clear signal. If I had been waiting for more than five minutes for a Driver to call in I'd be asking another train to investigate (Train a long time in section regulation).

Kev

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Replies to telephone calls 17/01/2019 at 22:57 #114846
bugsy
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I'll leave it to you guys with the knowledge.
I've got to sort out some trains.

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
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Replies to telephone calls 17/01/2019 at 23:31 #114847
headshot119
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KymriskaDraken in post 114845 said:


IRL a Driver probably wouldn't just sit there for hours on end waiting for a clear signal. If I had been waiting for more than five minutes for a Driver to call in I'd be asking another train to investigate (Train a long time in section regulation).

Kev
That doesn't happen these days though (though it would have been the old way), you'd just send the driver "contact sig" on GSMR, or if you can see the train is at a stand you can just ring the driver direct.

I do agree with posts further above, you don't just tell the driver to wait for a signal indefinitely, you need to define a regular time to keep in contact, more than 15 minutes is verging on unreasonable.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Replies to telephone calls 18/01/2019 at 08:57 #114848
kbarber
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clive in post 114832 said:
kbarber in post 114826 said:


(Of course, you run the risk, if you select too-long a time, that you end up needing to contact that driver. Waiting for him to ring back then creates the next disruption of your day, without a single failure in sight. But hey, that's the way it goes on this job.)
At present the driver is always attentively watching the signal waiting for it to clear, no matter how long the wait. I think there's a Mantis entry somewhere to make her less attentive for the first part of the wait.
Something that occurs to me is that this might also be wanted for a freight that's been looped, and the bobby might have decided when they'll let the freight out. (Particularly if they know who's on the front. If it's David Impy, they only need a fag paper between trains, because he'd overhaul an HST with an unfitted coal train, whereas a M***h or W************h man would need an extra 20 minutes on the booked margin to the next loop.) Even more the case if there's instructions for a closed period (most lines in the London area were blocked to freight trains from about 06:30 until 09:00 and again from 16:00 until 19:00). In that case you *seriously* don't want the driver in the loop round your neck every 15 minutes while you're navigating the peak around several track and points failures. (OK, this is probably a late 1970s to early '90s scenario. I'm a dinosaur, remember.)

In that situation, it wouldn't be at all unusual for the driver to get his head down (AKA settle down with the newspaper). And I assure you that, when the time runs out and you pull off, they most certainly have not become more attentive towards the end of the wait. Especially if a bit more overtime is involved.

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Replies to telephone calls 18/01/2019 at 10:34 #114849
jc92
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I was thinking the same as Keith.

If train is booked:

Loop 00:01 00/45

If the train arrives at 00:01 I'm going to have to tell him to call back at least twice, even if I already know I'm not going to be able to get him out before then. I appreciate this is a timetables preference but I think there's still a fair case.

Keith, there was a certain Shirebrook driver who took liberties with time until all the bobbies between thoresby agreed that whenever he worked a train past thoresby, the omnibus opened up and said driver got every distant on along the way (this in the era of partially braked 21 tonners and diesels with less than reliable brake force) said driver soon learned how to use the power handle properly!

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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