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Suggestions for this sim 25/02/2019 at 20:19 #115971
markymark2000
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I have noticed there is no auto interpose next train at any of the stations. Especially at Piccadilly and Oxford Road I think this should be implemented as this is a VERY busy map and things like this would help massively.

Secondly, would it be possible to add the auto signal to 455 and 462? Very few trains use the points which would be locked by these signals being on auto.

Thirdly, would it make sense to put the A-A, B-B on the Crows Nest signalling panel. It looks as if the trains come from outside the sim area. We all know that the A-A matches the A-A etc.

Fourthly, I know I have asked before but as it was on Facebook, I think I will repeat it to complete the thread and keep everything in one place, please could we have full auto signalling in the Airport panel. This area is very small but very busy and when you have Manchester Piccadilly to manage, the airport area is the last thing you need to worry about. This leads to many many delays when I play solo.

I look forward to the devs responses.

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Suggestions for this sim 25/02/2019 at 20:25 #115973
JamesN
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None of these features are on the real panel. That said ARS could potentially be introduced in future but the work involved is quite significant.
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Suggestions for this sim 25/02/2019 at 20:33 #115974
GeoffM
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Auto interpose (ACI) was not possible on Manchester due to the unusual way the stepping works. There is work in progress to address this though.

455 and 462 do not have auto buttons in real life. See this picture (compare to 744 and 755 lower down in the same picture; the former has auto enabled; the latter does not).

Crow Nest is a separate workstation to the main panel, hence why no continuation lines.

ARS has been considered for the whole sim but don't hold your breath. The Longsight area in particular doesn't lend itself to ARS. The sim has always been a multiplayer simulation, as described in the manual, so I'd recommend either joining or hosting a multiplayer.

SimSig Boss
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Suggestions for this sim 25/02/2019 at 20:34 #115975
TUT
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markymark2000 in post 115971 said:
I have noticed there is no auto interpose next train at any of the stations. Especially at Piccadilly and Oxford Road I think this should be implemented as this is a VERY busy map and things like this would help massively.
Remember it's more than a game it's a simulator

There's no ACI at Manchester Piccadilly because of the unsual way the TD system works there in real life, which is reflected in the simulation. I believe this is one of the reasons why the sim doesn't have ARS. The real life box doesn't (didn't?) have ARS either, but sometimes sims are given ARS even though the real life box doesn't have it because it's not just a simulator it is also a game :P

markymark2000 in post 115971 said:
Secondly, would it be possible to add the auto signal to 455 and 462? Very few trains use the points which would be locked by these signals being on auto.
This should reflect real life. If the real panel doesn't have auto buttons at these signals the sim shouldn't either. If the real panel does have them, then it's a mistake in the simulation which should be corrected to make the simulation match real life, not necessarily to aid players playing the game.

markymark2000 in post 115971 said:
Thirdly, would it make sense to put the A-A, B-B on the Crows Nest signalling panel. It looks as if the trains come from outside the sim area. We all know that the A-A matches the A-A etc.
I'm not quite sure I fully understand this, but Crow Nest Junction was a separate box which Manchester Piccadilly has now absorbed and I think it's VDU. But the Crow Nest Junction VDU panel is separate to the rest of Manchester Piccadilly, so again I think the sim is trying to reflect real life.

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Suggestions for this sim 25/02/2019 at 20:41 #115976
Steamer
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TUT in post 115975 said:
I'm not quite sure I fully understand this, but Crow Nest Junction was a separate box which Manchester Piccadilly has now absorbed and I think it's VDU. But the Crow Nest Junction VDU panel is separate to the rest of Manchester Piccadilly, so again I think the sim is trying to reflect real life.
That's correct; when MP opened, there were boxes at Walkden, Atherton, Crow Nest and Blackrod. These closed in 2013; Blackrod was tacked onto the panel, but the remainder were put on a new WestCad workstation, which being screen-based, is separate to the rest of the panel.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Suggestions for this sim 25/02/2019 at 20:42 #115977
TUT
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GeoffM in post 115974 said:
ARS has been considered for the whole sim but don't hold your breath. The Longsight area in particular doesn't lend itself to ARS. The sim has always been a multiplayer simulation, as described in the manual, so I'd recommend either joining or hosting a multiplayer.
Was the option of splitting the sim into two, in a similar way to what was done with Rugby SCC, considered?

I've played Manchester Picc and it was extremely spicy, but I could do it and I enjoyed it, but I definitely think any future sims on that kind of scale could be made more enjoyable if this option were considered

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Suggestions for this sim 25/02/2019 at 21:05 #115978
GeoffM
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TUT in post 115977 said:
GeoffM in post 115974 said:
ARS has been considered for the whole sim but don't hold your breath. The Longsight area in particular doesn't lend itself to ARS. The sim has always been a multiplayer simulation, as described in the manual, so I'd recommend either joining or hosting a multiplayer.
Was the option of splitting the sim into two, in a similar way to what was done with Rugby SCC, considered?

I've played Manchester Picc and it was extremely spicy, but I could do it and I enjoyed it, but I definitely think any future sims on that kind of scale could be made more enjoyable if this option were considered
Splitting sims increases the development time as the fringe data inevitably overlaps. It's not easy picking a suitable split anyway - Deansgate or Oxford Road potentially, but the complexity there is high.

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Suggestions for this sim 26/02/2019 at 01:58 #115990
Phil-jmw
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TUT in post 115977 said:
GeoffM in post 115974 said:
ARS has been considered for the whole sim but don't hold your breath. The Longsight area in particular doesn't lend itself to ARS. The sim has always been a multiplayer simulation, as described in the manual, so I'd recommend either joining or hosting a multiplayer.
Was the option of splitting the sim into two, in a similar way to what was done with Rugby SCC, considered?

I've played Manchester Picc and it was extremely spicy, but I could do it and I enjoyed it, but I definitely think any future sims on that kind of scale could be made more enjoyable if this option were considered
If it is getting a bit too "spicy" I would recommend slowing the sim speed until until you've squared the job up, then return to normal speed. This is really the option you should be embracing rather than requesting features that were not featured in the original box, as Simsig's excellent reputation is due in no small measure to it's adherence to replicating prototypical features of the boxes simulated.. Man Picc is the first sim I ever had to run at slower than normal speed, and I normally only use it during the morning and evening peaks when it really does get "spicy", but I occasionally have to slow things down a little if it is getting congested due to signalling failures or late running.

Last edited: 26/02/2019 at 02:01 by Phil-jmw
Reason: None given

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Suggestions for this sim 26/02/2019 at 07:44 #115991
TUT
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Phil-jmw in post 115990 said:
TUT in post 115977 said:
GeoffM in post 115974 said:
ARS has been considered for the whole sim but don't hold your breath. The Longsight area in particular doesn't lend itself to ARS. The sim has always been a multiplayer simulation, as described in the manual, so I'd recommend either joining or hosting a multiplayer.
Was the option of splitting the sim into two, in a similar way to what was done with Rugby SCC, considered?

I've played Manchester Picc and it was extremely spicy, but I could do it and I enjoyed it, but I definitely think any future sims on that kind of scale could be made more enjoyable if this option were considered
If it is getting a bit too "spicy" I would recommend slowing the sim speed until until you've squared the job up, then return to normal speed. This is really the option you should be embracing rather than requesting features that were not featured in the original box, as Simsig's excellent reputation is due in no small measure to it's adherence to replicating prototypical features of the boxes simulated.. Man Picc is the first sim I ever had to run at slower than normal speed, and I normally only use it during the morning and evening peaks when it really does get "spicy", but I occasionally have to slow things down a little if it is getting congested due to signalling failures or late running.
Personally I liked to pause the sim if I needed thinking time or a chance to clear everything up, but to each their own and otherwise I agree with everything you say.

I don't think I was requesting features that were not featured in the original, I only suggested splitting the sim up, as was done with Rugby and Three Bridges and Victoria ASC and sort of Kings Cross (though for technical reasons there, I believe). I think it would make larger sims more accessible or enjoyable to more people. And after all, that's very much more like the original box because in real life a signaller wouldn't be operating all the panels at once!

I loved Piccadilly, but I think I would have enjoyed the experience more if I'd had time to appreciate it, instead of clicking frenziedly.

Did you mix me up with the OP?

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Suggestions for this sim 26/02/2019 at 09:22 #115992
postal
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TUT in post 115991 said:
Did you mix me up with the OP?
More than likely. According to the their profile, the OP registered in 2013, made one post in 2015 (free entry to a prize draw) then has made 8 posts since 07/02/19, nearly all wanting changes to make it easier for him/her to run a sim in their own particular way and in some cases detracting from the realism of the simulation.

"No question is too stupid, there are just some stupid answers" - Dr. Michael Reece, 12/08/1927 - 03/06/2019. Electrical engineer and inventor
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Suggestions for this sim 26/02/2019 at 10:47 #115993
markymark2000
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I'm sorry I have never been into the proper signalling centre to see in great detail how it worked. I was only asking. No need to go off on one. I will refrain from asking in future.

Bar the Airport, I think the sim is fine at it's current size. That is the only area I seem to get trouble. All the rest works fine from a signalling perspective. That is the only reason I specifically requested auto for the Airport.

Is this a sim specific issue or real life issue where the ACI stepping up works in a different way? I look forward to the bug fixes.

Thanks for explaining the Crows Nest thing. It just seems a bit odd but that will possibly be due to the other sims I have played which seem to all use the A-A and B-B markers for continuation on the same sim.

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Suggestions for this sim 26/02/2019 at 12:34 #115995
Steamer
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markymark2000 in post 115993 said:
I'm
Is this a sim specific issue or real life issue where the ACI stepping up works in a different way? I look forward to the bug fixes.
As described in the manual, stepping at the terminal platforms at Piccadilly is unusual in reality, and this has been reflected in the simulation. So, everything is behaving as intended.

From what Geoff said, it appears that SimSig's ACI 'module' can't handle that style of stepping, hence it wasn't added to the simulation (and of course, the real box doesn't have it either).

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Suggestions for this sim 26/02/2019 at 12:49 #115998
markymark2000
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Steamer in post 115995 said:
markymark2000 in post 115993 said:
I'm
Is this a sim specific issue or real life issue where the ACI stepping up works in a different way? I look forward to the bug fixes.
As described in the manual, stepping at the terminal platforms at Piccadilly is unusual in reality, and this has been reflected in the simulation. So, everything is behaving as intended.

From what Geoff said, it appears that SimSig's ACI 'module' can't handle that style of stepping, hence it wasn't added to the simulation (and of course, the real box doesn't have it either).

Fair enough. If it can't be done, it can't be done at Picc, fair enough. Can it be introduced elsewhere like Man Airport or MCO or is it the stepping up in the whole of the Manchester Piccadilly control centre?

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Suggestions for this sim 26/02/2019 at 12:58 #115999
pedroathome
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markymark2000 in post 115998 said:

Fair enough. If it can't be done, it can't be done at Picc, fair enough. Can it be introduced elsewhere like Man Airport or MCO or is it the stepping up in the whole of the Manchester Piccadilly control centre?
Manchester Airport has exactly the same berth stepping as Piccadilly. I can't think of anywhere else in the sim which has a substantial amount of next workings

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Suggestions for this sim 26/02/2019 at 16:35 #116001
GeoffM
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TUT in post 115991 said:
Did you mix me up with the OP?
Yes, my apologies. Brain was fried by the time I (mis)quoted that.

SimSig Boss
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Suggestions for this sim 26/02/2019 at 16:40 #116002
Phil-jmw
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461 posts
TUT in post 115991 said:
Phil-jmw in post 115990 said:
TUT in post 115977 said:
GeoffM in post 115974 said:
ARS has been considered for the whole sim but don't hold your breath. The Longsight area in particular doesn't lend itself to ARS. The sim has always been a multiplayer simulation, as described in the manual, so I'd recommend either joining or hosting a multiplayer.
Was the option of splitting the sim into two, in a similar way to what was done with Rugby SCC, considered?

I've played Manchester Picc and it was extremely spicy, but I could do it and I enjoyed it, but I definitely think any future sims on that kind of scale could be made more enjoyable if this option were considered
If it is getting a bit too "spicy" I would recommend slowing the sim speed until until you've squared the job up, then return to normal speed. This is really the option you should be embracing rather than requesting features that were not featured in the original box, as Simsig's excellent reputation is due in no small measure to it's adherence to replicating prototypical features of the boxes simulated.. Man Picc is the first sim I ever had to run at slower than normal speed, and I normally only use it during the morning and evening peaks when it really does get "spicy", but I occasionally have to slow things down a little if it is getting congested due to signalling failures or late running.
Personally I liked to pause the sim if I needed thinking time or a chance to clear everything up, but to each their own and otherwise I agree with everything you say.

I don't think I was requesting features that were not featured in the original, I only suggested splitting the sim up, as was done with Rugby and Three Bridges and Victoria ASC and sort of Kings Cross (though for technical reasons there, I believe). I think it would make larger sims more accessible or enjoyable to more people. And after all, that's very much more like the original box because in real life a signaller wouldn't be operating all the panels at once!

I loved Piccadilly, but I think I would have enjoyed the experience more if I'd had time to appreciate it, instead of clicking frenziedly.

Did you mix me up with the OP?
When I said "what you need..." I was addressing players generally rather than any specific poster.

Pausing works too, I occasionally pause if I'm looking at, say, stepping up units to recover the service when I've had big problems (unit stepping works well on Kings Cross where the local services are pretty self-contained). but if I want to keep things moving and just need that little bit more thinking time slowing the sim down for half an hour or an hour works for me.

Last edited: 26/02/2019 at 16:40 by Phil-jmw
Reason: None given

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Suggestions for this sim 22/03/2020 at 21:00 #123959
markymark2000
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Do we have any plans yet for a bit of ACI and/or auto routing yet around the Airport?
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Suggestions for this sim 22/03/2020 at 21:29 #123961
Sacro
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markymark2000 in post 123959 said:
Do we have any plans yet for a bit of ACI and/or auto routing yet around the Airport?
It's not there in real life, I don't think there'd be plans for it in the sim

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Suggestions for this sim 22/03/2020 at 21:48 #123963
markymark2000
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Sacro in post 123961 said:
markymark2000 in post 123959 said:
Do we have any plans yet for a bit of ACI and/or auto routing yet around the Airport?
It's not there in real life, I don't think there'd be plans for it in the sim

The Auto impose or auto routing? or both?

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Suggestions for this sim 22/03/2020 at 21:50 #123964
headshot119
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markymark2000 in post 123963 said:
Sacro in post 123961 said:
markymark2000 in post 123959 said:
Do we have any plans yet for a bit of ACI and/or auto routing yet around the Airport?
It's not there in real life, I don't think there'd be plans for it in the sim

The Auto impose or auto routing? or both?
There's definitely no ARS or ACI at Manchester Piccadilly SC in real life.

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Suggestions for this sim 22/03/2020 at 21:57 #123965
markymark2000
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headshot119 in post 123964 said:
markymark2000 in post 123963 said:
Sacro in post 123961 said:
markymark2000 in post 123959 said:
Do we have any plans yet for a bit of ACI and/or auto routing yet around the Airport?
It's not there in real life, I don't think there'd be plans for it in the sim

The Auto impose or auto routing? or both?
There's definitely no ARS or ACI at Manchester Piccadilly SC in real life.
Such a shame. The airport panel is one of the biggest issues on the Piccadilly sim. As I have said before, it's the 1 thing which stops the sim being single player in my opinion and it makes me very reluctant to purchase the sim.

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Suggestions for this sim 22/03/2020 at 22:22 #123969
Phil-jmw
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markymark2000 in post 123965 said:
headshot119 in post 123964 said:
markymark2000 in post 123963 said:
Sacro in post 123961 said:
markymark2000 in post 123959 said:
Do we have any plans yet for a bit of ACI and/or auto routing yet around the Airport?
It's not there in real life, I don't think there'd be plans for it in the sim

The Auto impose or auto routing? or both?
There's definitely no ARS or ACI at Manchester Piccadilly SC in real life.
Such a shame. The airport panel is one of the biggest issues on the Piccadilly sim. As I have said before, it's the 1 thing which stops the sim being single player in my opinion and it makes me very reluctant to purchase the sim.
There are plenty of heritage timetables that allow you to run Man Picc in pretty well its original London Road PSB form, ie without the airport or all the former L&Y lines to the north. They have plenty to keep you busy, including some mail/parcels trains and freight, and as Inter-City trains back then were loco hauled there are plenty of additional shunting moves to be made to re-engine trains in the station, rather than the straight in and out that the modern Pendolino service provides. I do slow the time down a little in the peaks, but they are manageable by one person without the requirement of ARS. As it is a period I can remember I find them much more interesting than the modern TT's, and they are the only timetables I run this sim with now.

Last edited: 22/03/2020 at 22:36 by Phil-jmw
Reason: None given

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