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1991 timetable 15/04/2019 at 21:28 #117622
Muzer
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Is it expected that 6K91 terminates with no engine at Sudforth Lane sidings? It's a Tuesday.
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1991 timetable 15/04/2019 at 22:38 #117624
58050
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Muzer in post 117622 said:
Is it expected that 6K91 terminates with no engine at Sudforth Lane sidings? It's a Tuesday.

Looking at the MGR coal plan 6K910442 TO MGR Ferrybridge- - Sudforth Lane arr.04.54 shows detach empties & LD to Knottingley TMD. The loco departs Sudforth Lane at 05.10 & arrives at Knottingley TMD at 05.14.
Another loco comes off Knottingley TMD as 0K91 05.56 TWThO to Sudforth Lane & attaches to either that set of empties or another set there to form 6K91 06.26 MGR Sudforth Lane - York Yard North. I'd be very surprised if Kev & I missed something as we both extensively tested this timetable throughout each day of the week well before the advent of the alpha & beta tester teams. What you need to realise with MGR workings is that any set at either Sudforth Lane or Milford WS could be used for any MGR working as they are all 36 MGR wagon sets apart from the circuits working to Welbeck Disposal which are restricted to 32 MGR wagon sets due to coal slag weighing heavier than the coal sent to the power stations. So when allocating a set to its next working it doesn't necessarily follow that the specific set you are quierying has a next working.

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1991 timetable 02/05/2019 at 08:54 #118012
bossman
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Just playing 1991 on a Tuesday and looking at the time table 7K83 enters at 0200 heading for Drax, exits at 0240 but I can't see a corresponding return of 6K83, just 0K83 enters at Milford West Siding at 0437. Loving the TT as always.
cliff cook
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1991 timetable 02/05/2019 at 10:18 #118020
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Well spotted. Thanks for highlghting that. I've checked both the timetable & the MGR coal plan & the empties should come back out of Drax Power Station as 6K83 0337 MSX MGR Drax Power Station - Milford WS. This will be resolved & an updayed version will be released shortly.
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1991 timetable 02/05/2019 at 13:43 #118021
bossman
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Thanks for that Pascal, I noticed the light engine goes to Knottingley TMD at 0437 from Milford but no train to take it there.
cliff cook
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1991 timetable 02/05/2019 at 18:30 #118025
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Just a small one Friday TT edit 2F77/2F772214 should go to plat 2 not 1 ie UP not DN as the next working is 2F78/2F782300 Monkhill which should also be UP not DN as a Drax coal train 6x crew changes knottingley plat 1 at 23.00! So big conflict resolved by routing to 2 instead of 1 as all the rest do. Other query is westgate to kirkgate then barnsley are all plat 1 except 1 train which is plat 2. Note the crew change freight trains (most of them) at wakefield fouls the points so no train can depart plat 1 to mirfield or barnsley.
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1991 timetable 02/05/2019 at 19:29 #118026
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I'll take a look at that tonight. Edits will be made where necessary & hopefully an updated TT will be made in a few days.
I must admit I swas getting a bit concerned about the fact that not many users had reported issues & wondered if users had found this timetable too overwhelming to play single manned. But glad some of you have stuck with it.

Last edited: 02/05/2019 at 19:29 by 58050
Reason: corrected typo

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1991 timetable 02/05/2019 at 20:31 #118030
geswedey
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58050 in post 118026 said:
I'll take a look at that tonight. Edits will be made where necessary & hopefully an updated TT will be made in a few days.
I must admit I swas getting a bit concerned about the fact that not many users had reported issues & wondered if users had found this timetable too overwhelming to play single manned. But glad some of you have stuck with it.
Managed the timetable twice now on my own, if it gets hectic, I cheat and slow down until sort I myself out, needless to say I don't enable the LCs

Glyn

Last edited: 02/05/2019 at 20:32 by geswedey
Reason: None given

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1991 timetable 03/05/2019 at 12:01 #118044
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geswedey in post 118030 said:
58050 in post 118026 said:
I'll take a look at that tonight. Edits will be made where necessary & hopefully an updated TT will be made in a few days.
I must admit I swas getting a bit concerned about the fact that not many users had reported issues & wondered if users had found this timetable too overwhelming to play single manned. But glad some of you have stuck with it.
Managed the timetable twice now on my own, if it gets hectic, I cheat and slow down until sort I myself out, needless to say I don't enable the LCs

Glyn
Well done personally speaking I've only ever run through this timetable whilstKev & I were testing it & that involved 2 or 3 of us. I've never actually gone through the whole timetable on my own, but similarly I wouldn't have the level crossings active as it gets unmanageable at times.

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1991 timetable 03/05/2019 at 16:33 #118054
Phil-jmw
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6M18 0850 Lindsey - Glazebrook is booked Up Goole - Up Goods - Up Fast at Wakefield Kirkgate, but the dvr calls up from WK1232 Sig on the Up Goole querying the route and requesting a platform.
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1991 timetable 03/05/2019 at 16:46 #118056
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Phil-jmw in post 118054 said:
6M18 0850 Lindsey - Glazebrook is booked Up Goole - Up Goods - Up Fast at Wakefield Kirkgate, but the dvr calls up from WK1232 Sig on the Up Goole querying the route and requesting a platform.
OK Phil I'll take a look at this shortly.

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1991 timetable 03/05/2019 at 18:30 #118060
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Just done my first hour and a half on this timetable. It's great fun! Thanks to Pascal and others involved in putting it together.

Chris

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1991 timetable 03/05/2019 at 19:08 #118062
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Phil-jmw in post 118054 said:
6M18 0850 Lindsey - Glazebrook is booked Up Goole - Up Goods - Up Fast at Wakefield Kirkgate, but the dvr calls up from WK1232 Sig on the Up Goole querying the route and requesting a platform.
I've changed the location at Wakefield Kirkgate from UG to P3 where the crew change will take place & hopefully the driver won't be on the phone & quierying the route.

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1991 timetable 03/05/2019 at 21:27 #118069
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From a run through of the Mon timetable, the following was noted:

1. 6M49MSX0420 has no rule to prevent it entering on Mondays.

2. The rule controlling the entry of 7K880420 prevents it entering R/T.

3. Seed 6k86sudfthlnup divides to form 6K951414 using DCR activity. This leaves 6K95 with no power (although 6K95 TT spec'd as Cl56 + 36 wgns) and no loco appears to provide power.

4. 6K761647's rule regulating its entry references the wrong Ferrybridge location so train does not run.

5. Does 7K860915 run MX as its rule only refers to 6K860749 not 6K86MO0749?

6. Rules for 6K952357 refer only to the FO version of 7K952218.

7. 6K790514 is not able to select the MO version of 7K790710.

8. 7K802014 needs a rule to prevent it entering too early - 6K801828 empties that form?

Hope that isn't too much of a handful! Looking forward to being able to chain in Leeds & York.

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1991 timetable 04/05/2019 at 01:13 #118071
Phil-jmw
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2G60 0830 Doncaster - Holbeck Track Recording Unit, when returning from Monk Bretton towards Crofton East Spur, calls up from WK6823 Sig Oakenshaw South Jn and queries the route to Crofton East.
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1991 timetable 04/05/2019 at 03:55 #118072
Noisynoel
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This is fixed in the next sim version to be released imminently
Noisynoel
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1991 timetable 04/05/2019 at 11:45 #118080
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Soton_Speed in post 118069 said:
From a run through of the Mon timetable, the following was noted:

1. 6M49MSX0420 has no rule to prevent it entering on Mondays.

2. The rule controlling the entry of 7K880420 prevents it entering R/T.

3. Seed 6k86sudfthlnup divides to form 6K951414 using DCR activity. This leaves 6K95 with no power (although 6K95 TT spec'd as Cl56 + 36 wgns) and no loco appears to provide power.

4. 6K761647's rule regulating its entry references the wrong Ferrybridge location so train does not run.

5. Does 7K860915 run MX as its rule only refers to 6K860749 not 6K86MO0749?

6. Rules for 6K952357 refer only to the FO version of 7K952218.

7. 6K790514 is not able to select the MO version of 7K790710.

8. 7K802014 needs a rule to prevent it entering too early - 6K801828 empties that form?

Hope that isn't too much of a handful! Looking forward to being able to chain in Leeds & York.
Thanks for highlighting these & I will look at them tomorrow & hopefully I can send Noel the updated timetable version of the timetable to be uploaded for everyone.In regards to the units reversing at Knottingley raised by Diesel Rider I've changed the platforming of those trains. 6M18 raised by Phil has also been done. The big problem is regarding the addition of 6K83 0337 MSX MGR Drax Power Station - Milford WS. The LD off that train 0K83 0437 LD Milford WS - Knottingley TMD is shown to come out of Sdg. No.2 at Milford. Unfortunately looking on F8 there is another train booked in there later in the morning. So this could result in some major editing to the timetable. Does anyone have a saved snapshot around 0400 (not a Monday, any other day will be fine)? Or else I will have to run the timetable from the start to that point so I can see what sdg is free at Milford WS.

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1991 timetable 04/05/2019 at 11:55 #118081
geswedey
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58050 in post 118044 said:
geswedey in post 118030 said:
58050 in post 118026 said:
I'll take a look at that tonight. Edits will be made where necessary & hopefully an updated TT will be made in a few days.
I must admit I swas getting a bit concerned about the fact that not many users had reported issues & wondered if users had found this timetable too overwhelming to play single manned. But glad some of you have stuck with it.
Managed the timetable twice now on my own, if it gets hectic, I cheat and slow down until sort I myself out, needless to say I don't enable the LCs

Glyn
Well done personally speaking I've only ever run through this timetable whilstKev & I were testing it & that involved 2 or 3 of us. I've never actually gone through the whole timetable on my own, but similarly I wouldn't have the level crossings active as it gets unmanageable at times.
I managed to work round any issues I encountered, the only one I really remember was doing a loco change on the Down Goole at Sudforth Lane as there were no sidings available.

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1991 timetable 04/05/2019 at 13:06 #118083
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Soton_Speed in post 118069 said:
From a run through of the Mon timetable, the following was noted:

1. 6M49MSX0420 has no rule to prevent it entering on Mondays.

2. The rule controlling the entry of 7K880420 prevents it entering R/T.

3. Seed 6k86sudfthlnup divides to form 6K951414 using DCR activity. This leaves 6K95 with no power (although 6K95 TT spec'd as Cl56 + 36 wgns) and no loco appears to provide power.

4. 6K761647's rule regulating its entry references the wrong Ferrybridge location so train does not run.

5. Does 7K860915 run MX as its rule only refers to 6K860749 not 6K86MO0749?

6. Rules for 6K952357 refer only to the FO version of 7K952218.

7. 6K790514 is not able to select the MO version of 7K790710.

8. 7K802014 needs a rule to prevent it entering too early - 6K801828 empties that form?

Hope that isn't too much of a handful! Looking forward to being able to chain in Leeds & York.
7K86 0912 SX MGR Selby New Mine - Drax Power Station is shown to run everyday SX.
The issue you raise regarding 6K95 FO is correct because the MGR coal plan states on FO the empty set goes to York Yard North, but the reason the rule appertains to the FO service is because on FSX the loaded set from York Yard North comes from Murton Colliery in the North East where as on FO the loaded set originates from York Yard North & would have arrived from a different location which isn't shown in the plan.
With regards to Item 7, I'll get Kev to look at that when he returns as he set up the next wkg rules for that train.
The other items I've added in the missing rules & amended the time in the rule for item 2.
Will advise on the others when they have been looked at.

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1991 timetable 04/05/2019 at 15:46 #118085
Phil-jmw
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Another little one Pascal. 6E31 1113 Weaste - Port Clarence booked through line at Wakefield Kirkgate but is also booked relief there. When signalled along the Up & Dn Through from WK1211 Sig he queries the route. Maybe needs to be booked a platform like 6M18.

Had another little issue with 2G60 Track Recording Unit as well. When returning from Monk Bretton to Calder Bridge he queried the route at Oakenshaw South Jn stating not booked via Calder Bridge Jn.

Last edited: 04/05/2019 at 15:50 by Phil-jmw
Reason: None given

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1991 timetable 04/05/2019 at 15:57 #118086
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Phil-jmw in post 118085 said:
Another little one Pascal. 6E31 1113 Weaste - Port Clarence booked through line at Wakefield Kirkgate but is also booked relief there. When signalled along the Up & Dn Through from WK1211 Sig he queries the route. Maybe needs to be booked a platform like 6M18.

Had another little issue with 2G60 Track Recording Unit as well. When returning from Monk Bretton to Calder Bridge he queried the route at Oakenshaw South Jn stating not booked via Calder Bridge Jn.
Regarding platforms they probably just need through line stop ticked.

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1991 timetable 04/05/2019 at 16:18 #118087
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58050 in post 118080 said:
Does anyone have a saved snapshot around 0400 (not a Monday, any other day will be fine)? Or else I will have to run the timetable from the start to that point so I can see what sdg is free at Milford WS.
Here's a snapshot from 0400 on a Wednesday.

HTH

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1991 timetable 04/05/2019 at 18:05 #118088
Noisynoel
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Phil-jmw in post 118085 said:
Another little one Pascal. 6E31 1113 Weaste - Port Clarence booked through line at Wakefield Kirkgate but is also booked relief there. When signalled along the Up & Dn Through from WK1211 Sig he queries the route. Maybe needs to be booked a platform like 6M18.

Had another little issue with 2G60 Track Recording Unit as well. When returning from Monk Bretton to Calder Bridge he queried the route at Oakenshaw South Jn stating not booked via Calder Bridge Jn.
That has been fixed in a updated version of the sim which will be released shortly

Noisynoel
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1991 timetable 04/05/2019 at 22:43 #118092
lazzer
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58050 in post 117624 said:
Muzer in post 117622 said:
Is it expected that 6K91 terminates with no engine at Sudforth Lane sidings? It's a Tuesday.

Looking at the MGR coal plan 6K910442 TO MGR Ferrybridge- - Sudforth Lane arr.04.54 shows detach empties & LD to Knottingley TMD. The loco departs Sudforth Lane at 05.10 & arrives at Knottingley TMD at 05.14.
Another loco comes off Knottingley TMD as 0K91 05.56 TWThO to Sudforth Lane & attaches to either that set of empties or another set there to form 6K91 06.26 MGR Sudforth Lane - York Yard North. I'd be very surprised if Kev & I missed something as we both extensively tested this timetable throughout each day of the week well before the advent of the alpha & beta tester teams. What you need to realise with MGR workings is that any set at either Sudforth Lane or Milford WS could be used for any MGR working as they are all 36 MGR wagon sets apart from the circuits working to Welbeck Disposal which are restricted to 32 MGR wagon sets due to coal slag weighing heavier than the coal sent to the power stations. So when allocating a set to its next working it doesn't necessarily follow that the specific set you are quierying has a next working.
Pascal - I'm up to 19:40 on a Wednesday and 6K86 has entered at Shaftholme Junction for the Sudforth Sidings. The trouble is, all three sidings are full and none of them are due to depart until after 6K86 is booked to arrive, change engines, and then depart at 20:59.

One of the sidings is occupied by empties 6K91, which arrived earlier in the day and have been sat there for many hours. I have empties which will become 6K82 and 6K86 in the other two sidings. With reference to the 6K91 which you addressed in the quoted post, should the 6K91 empties be still sat here, or should an engine have coupled up and taken them away?

Looking through the F4 list of the several 6K91s that have entered the sim I see one with UID 6K91MFX0951 which enters Eggborough PS at 09:51, runs to Sudforth, detaches engine 0K91 and then has no further activity. I believe the empties I have sitting there are from this train.

I know that in the quoted post you state that some empties may not have a forward working, but in this particular instance 6K91 is blocking the job up quite a bit. I can't perform the engine change for 6K86 on the Down Goole line as trains for Eggborough and Drax are due through before it's due back out again.

Is this an oversight, or are those empties supposed to just remain there once the engine uncouples at 10:02? As it stands the only thing I can do is hold 6K86 at Knottingley South Junction and wait for one of the other two empties to be taken away. I've attached a screenshot showing the train I believe is the problem in the F4 list.

Thanks.


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1991 timetable 05/05/2019 at 11:10 #118095
58050
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lazzer in post 118092 said:
58050 in post 117624 said:
Muzer in post 117622 said:
Is it expected that 6K91 terminates with no engine at Sudforth Lane sidings? It's a Tuesday.

Looking at the MGR coal plan 6K910442 TO MGR Ferrybridge- - Sudforth Lane arr.04.54 shows detach empties & LD to Knottingley TMD. The loco departs Sudforth Lane at 05.10 & arrives at Knottingley TMD at 05.14.
Another loco comes off Knottingley TMD as 0K91 05.56 TWThO to Sudforth Lane & attaches to either that set of empties or another set there to form 6K91 06.26 MGR Sudforth Lane - York Yard North. I'd be very surprised if Kev & I missed something as we both extensively tested this timetable throughout each day of the week well before the advent of the alpha & beta tester teams. What you need to realise with MGR workings is that any set at either Sudforth Lane or Milford WS could be used for any MGR working as they are all 36 MGR wagon sets apart from the circuits working to Welbeck Disposal which are restricted to 32 MGR wagon sets due to coal slag weighing heavier than the coal sent to the power stations. So when allocating a set to its next working it doesn't necessarily follow that the specific set you are quierying has a next working.
Pascal - I'm up to 19:40 on a Wednesday and 6K86 has entered at Shaftholme Junction for the Sudforth Sidings. The trouble is, all three sidings are full and none of them are due to depart until after 6K86 is booked to arrive, change engines, and then depart at 20:59.

One of the sidings is occupied by empties 6K91, which arrived earlier in the day and have been sat there for many hours. I have empties which will become 6K82 and 6K86 in the other two sidings. With reference to the 6K91 which you addressed in the quoted post, should the 6K91 empties be still sat here, or should an engine have coupled up and taken them away?

Looking through the F4 list of the several 6K91s that have entered the sim I see one with UID 6K91MFX0951 which enters Eggborough PS at 09:51, runs to Sudforth, detaches engine 0K91 and then has no further activity. I believe the empties I have sitting there are from this train.

I know that in the quoted post you state that some empties may not have a forward working, but in this particular instance 6K91 is blocking the job up quite a bit. I can't perform the engine change for 6K86 on the Down Goole line as trains for Eggborough and Drax are due through before it's due back out again.

Is this an oversight, or are those empties supposed to just remain there once the engine uncouples at 10:02? As it stands the only thing I can do is hold 6K86 at Knottingley South Junction and wait for one of the other two empties to be taken away. I've attached a screenshot showing the train I believe is the problem in the F4 list.

Thanks.


Thanks for the this Neil. Firstly looking at the MGR coal plan I can confirm that 6k91 0951 TWThO MGR Eggborough Power Station - Sudforth Lane is the last workings of that set & shows arriving at Sudforth Lane at 1002, it shows 'DETACH ETIES, LD' & the loco returns to Knottingley TMD. What I am tempyed to say & it's no disrespect to you as I know you are a railwayman, but I don't recall ever having this problem when Kev & I tested the timetable & to back that up some of the users on this thread have also confirmed they have run through the full 24 hours & have not mentioned the fact that they have run out of room at Sudforth Lane. So I'm wondering whether you ended up placing a set in Sudforth Lane that shouldn't be there? Sudforth Lane is a bit tricky due to a couple of SCN wkgs from Doncaster which load at Kellingley Colliery & it is vital you don't block there acess on the days of the week they run. But other than that I can honestly say I ever encountered the issue you raised. If however you are 100% certain that everything went where it should I'm going to be running a Wednesday test session starting fromn 04.00am snapshot another user has post so I can work out where to put a missing train that someone pointed out. This may mean a total re-write of everything going in & out of Milford WQS as placing that train in Sdg. No.2 where it was shown to go could have consequences on trains booked into that sdg later in the day. I've been thinking about this on & off since it was reported & maybe the only alternative so I don't have to re-write everything at Milford WS is to put that train in the Down Sdgs as that is the last wkg of that trip. I'll continue running the Wednesday snapshot till I get up to 20.00 & see if I end up with the problem you describe, but don't expect this to be finalised today as Kev is on a sabatical, so I'm doing this on my own. Either way I'lllet you know the outcome.
Each of the MGR coal trips have a full weeks work listed in the MGR coal plan & furthermore all of the MGR coal sets are 36 wagons apart from the Welbeck Bunker services which are 32 wagon set. So in the real world every MGR set providing it has no cripples or wagons due PPM could work any of the MGR coal trips, so in the real world if they need a road at Sudforth Lane a loco would come off Knottingley TMD & shunt the set to another location or the train heading for Sudforth Lane would be diverted to detach it's wagons somewhere else, something you can't really do on SimSig on the fly like in real life unfortunately as that would also mean amending the subsequent workingsd of the loco. MGR sets do stand in sdgs for hours or dayssubject to traffic demends. Thingsd get even worse in winter. I've known sets stand in Toton New Bank sdgs for days on end all loaded with coal, but the coal can be discharged as it's frozen in the wagons & MGR wagons aren't insulated like the EWS HTA bogie coal hopper wagons.

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