Upcoming Games


Full list
Add a game

Sheffield 08-04-2015 SX WTT - a few queries

You are here: Home > Forum > Simulations > Timetables > Sheffield (ROC) > Sheffield 08-04-2015 SX WTT - a few queries

Page 1 of 1

Sheffield 08-04-2015 SX WTT - a few queries 11/04/2019 at 17:29 #117467
Lyn-Greenwood
Avatar
162 posts
I've some observations/queries re the Sheffield 08-04-2015 SX timetable.

1. In the 0000 start version of the timetable, the 3 trains 6D94, 6E08 & 6E20 (all from Masborough Steel Terminal) have the Path Code (BL) missing from the Masborough JN section of their timetables. The timetable analyser reports Invalid Timetable Data which I believe prevents the trains from entering the sim. The 0400 & 1400 start versions of the timetable have the correct Path values.

2. Train 5P51 is too long to fit between signals 87 & 92 and has its rear end fouling access to/from the Sheffield Shunt Spur & Washer. The train is specified as "Class 144/158 3&2 (5 car)" with a length of 92m. Is this correct or is the track length wrong in the sim?

3. Train 1B64 (Manchester Airport - Sheffield, 2-car class 170, length 47m) arrives in Sheffield platform 5A at 07:01 and forms 1B65 which is a 4-car class 170, length 94m. I've checked both trains in the 08-04-2015 SX timetable of the Manchester Piccadilly sim and the formations are correct, so is there a missing Join at Sheffield?

Log in to reply
Sheffield 08-04-2015 SX WTT - a few queries 11/04/2019 at 18:11 #117470
Meld
Avatar
511 posts
Lyn-Greenwood in post 117467 said:
I've some observations/queries re the Sheffield 08-04-2015 SX timetable.
Lyn, always something to look forward to ;)

Quote:


1. In the 0000 start version of the timetable, the 3 trains 6D94, 6E08 & 6E20 (all from Masborough Steel Terminal) have the Path Code (BL) missing from the Masborough JN section of their timetables. The timetable analyser reports Invalid Timetable Data which I believe prevents the trains from entering the sim. The 0400 & 1400 start versions of the timetable have the correct Path values.
Noted - next build will have the values in

Quote:
2. Train 5P51 is too long to fit between signals 87 & 92 and has its rear end fouling access to/from the Sheffield Shunt Spur & Washer. The train is specified as "Class 144/158 3&2 (5 car)" with a length of 92m. Is this correct or is the track length wrong in the sim?
Correct - it is common to overhang and foul access to the Spur and Washer later in the morning - On numerous occaisions TPE 6 car 185s have been stabled there during the day going back into Granville St Tunnel

Quote:


3. Train 1B64 (Manchester Airport - Sheffield, 2-car class 170, length 47m) arrives in Sheffield platform 5A at 07:01 and forms 1B65 which is a 4-car class 170, length 94m. I've checked both trains in the 08-04-2015 SX timetable of the Manchester Piccadilly sim and the formations are correct, so is there a missing Join at Sheffield?
I'm missing the correct TPE diagrams, had to patch a something from the ones I do have - due to the wind down of the TPE 170 fleet and transfer to Chilterns diagrams were a little fluid to say the least.

Finally a request

If anybody has a copy of the December 2014 or subsequent amended TPE diagrams, or even a Station working book for Sheffield or Man Picc for Apr 2015 please drop me a PM - TIA

Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: Lyn-Greenwood
Sheffield 08-04-2015 SX WTT - a few queries 11/04/2019 at 19:03 #117475
GeoffM
Avatar
4367 posts
Lyn-Greenwood in post 117467 said:
3. Train 1B64 (Manchester Airport - Sheffield, 2-car class 170, length 47m) arrives in Sheffield platform 5A at 07:01 and forms 1B65 which is a 4-car class 170, length 94m. I've checked both trains in the 08-04-2015 SX timetable of the Manchester Piccadilly sim and the formations are correct, so is there a missing Join at Sheffield?
Very general comment: sometimes it's hard to find the actual formation is when the stock book for one station differs from the stock book for another station, and I assume slip coaches while crossing the Pennines (or whatever) have long been discontinued! Even within the same stock book, it's not uncommon to find the same physical train being described as different stock with no divides or joins for subsequent services! You think you've worked it out, and then find that you now need to change a whole chain of schedules to match.

SimSig Boss
Log in to reply
Sheffield 08-04-2015 SX WTT - a few queries 12/04/2019 at 16:02 #117507
Lyn-Greenwood
Avatar
162 posts
Meld,

Train 5P51 is described as the 05:36 ECS from Sheffield Holding Sidings to Platform 1B, so why has it been timetabled (in the simulation) to enter the sim at 03:50 and sit between signals 87 & 92 until 05:39? In the 0400 start timetable, it gets seeded there. Why not just let it enter at the correct time (in both cases) and route it straight to platform 1B? Because it's too long for the line between sigs 87 & 92, it prevents other moves from being made as per their timetable.

I'm interested in the logic behind the way it's been timetabled.

Log in to reply
Sheffield 08-04-2015 SX WTT - a few queries 12/04/2019 at 16:40 #117509
Meld
Avatar
511 posts
Lyn - having watched weeks of unplanned shunts at Sheffield it was the happiest compromise I could come up with. I know that the stock formation was correct, it has run out of the HS as early as 0130 and sat there all night long to make room for other units to be set up, it has to be very fluid, as the next day workings are decided by Northern Control. Most nights both these units arrive before 2300 and there just isnt enough space

I noticed most of the signallers prefer to work only 2/3 car sets at a time especially with the north end needing you to pull S147 off to allow any 4 car plus to fit in behind S142. Then there are the moves between the Fuel Road and the Sidings them selves.The top road of the 2 at Fuel road with the lower road representing the HS. The signaller sets route to P1A using headcode 0S00, however this only comes out beyond the handpoint to switch back into the sidings without entering the platform, but the headcode steps to the platform but nothing ever arrives so gets deleted

Another reason - I like to give a little to think about, I did consider doing a couple of nights variants with different shunts round the station to get from the Up Island Platforms to HS Just using FUEL & WASH TDs

Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: Lyn-Greenwood
Sheffield 08-04-2015 SX WTT - a few queries 12/04/2019 at 17:17 #117514
jc92
Avatar
2530 posts
Have you considered marking all the shunt moves as not running with ARS as they aren't in the train planning system? Extra realism. Extra work
Log in to reply
Sheffield 08-04-2015 SX WTT - a few queries 12/04/2019 at 17:21 #117515
GeoffM
Avatar
4367 posts
jc92 in post 117514 said:
Have you considered marking all the shunt moves as not running with ARS as they aren't in the train planning system? Extra realism. Extra work :)
To be fair, I only added that feature last week!

SimSig Boss
Log in to reply
Sheffield 08-04-2015 SX WTT - a few queries 12/04/2019 at 18:41 #117521
jc92
Avatar
2530 posts
GeoffM in post 117515 said:
jc92 in post 117514 said:
Have you considered marking all the shunt moves as not running with ARS as they aren't in the train planning system? Extra realism. Extra work :)
To be fair, I only added that feature last week!
Oh ok. I'm sure a year ago or so I noticed something along those lines where a tt could be marked non ARS. I didn't even realise you had changed anything!

Log in to reply
Sheffield 08-04-2015 SX WTT - a few queries 13/04/2019 at 18:04 #117545
Lyn-Greenwood
Avatar
162 posts
Meld in post 117509 said:
Lyn - having watched weeks of unplanned shunts at Sheffield it was the happiest compromise I could come up with. I know that the stock formation was correct, it has run out of the HS as early as 0130 and sat there all night long to make room for other units to be set up, it has to be very fluid, as the next day workings are decided by Northern Control. Most nights both these units arrive before 2300 and there just isnt enough space

I noticed most of the signallers prefer to work only 2/3 car sets at a time especially with the north end needing you to pull S147 off to allow any 4 car plus to fit in behind S142. Then there are the moves between the Fuel Road and the Sidings them selves.The top road of the 2 at Fuel road with the lower road representing the HS. The signaller sets route to P1A using headcode 0S00, however this only comes out beyond the handpoint to switch back into the sidings without entering the platform, but the headcode steps to the platform but nothing ever arrives so gets deleted

Another reason - I like to give a little to think about, I did consider doing a couple of nights variants with different shunts round the station to get from the Up Island Platforms to HS Just using FUEL & WASH TDs ;)
OK, Meld, I can understand the realism, but in the 0400 start timetable, train S2SE can't get to P2A using the supplied paths (because 5P51 is in the way), so it should be changed to make the move possible. I know you can use the F2 Edit Timetable function to achieve this, but I'm of the opinion that the timetabled move should work.

Edit: just noticed that S2SE enters at 02:10 in the 0000 start timetable, which is OK as 5P51 isn't around at that time. Maybe S2SE should be seeded in the 0400 start version?

Last edited: 13/04/2019 at 18:12 by Lyn-Greenwood
Reason: Extra information

Log in to reply