TRTS and the Proceed aspect

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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 02/08/2019 at 23:18 #119814
MrBitsy
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Not heared that one at Temple Meads, but I like it :-)
TVSC Link 4 signaller - Temple Meads, Bath & Stoke Gifford
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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 02/08/2019 at 23:21 #119815
MrBitsy
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bugsy in post 118889 said:

Would you get your knuckles rapped if you did set a route from Exeter before receiving TRTS then?

Likewise with Preston and Carlisle
Depends. If the train leaves no problem, but if it doesn't leave for some reason then not good. At Busy stations like Temple Meads, clearing the signal before getting the TRTS is akin to jumping out of an aircraft without a parachute :-)

TVSC Link 4 signaller - Temple Meads, Bath & Stoke Gifford
Last edited: 02/08/2019 at 23:23 by MrBitsy
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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 03/08/2019 at 10:28 #119819
norman B
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Preston in the early 90s the platform staff instruction was to give the TRTS signal 30secs before departure time.Carlisle was also in that bracket.

Through trains at both of these stations would have the route cleared .Trains calling for crew change purposes the requirment was that the new crew reported to the platform inspector who then would wait for the new crew to give him the ok ,then he pressed the TRTS signal.This was just in case on change over any problems arose.

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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 04/08/2019 at 05:12 #119836
Hawk777
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I’m curious about all the mentions of wanting to avoid SPADs. I know SPADs are bad, but isn’t overshooting the platform bad too? And if you don’t overshoot the platform, then surely you also didn’t SPAD, if the platform starter signal is red?
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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 04/08/2019 at 06:53 #119837
pedroathome
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Hawk777 in post 119836 said:
I’m curious about all the mentions of wanting to avoid SPADs. I know SPADs are bad, but isn’t overshooting the platform bad too? And if you don’t overshoot the platform, then surely you also didn’t SPAD, if the platform starter signal is red?
I can only speculate based on educated guesses, but here I go:

On a slightly different line, I would suggest that in part its also down to TPWS. Approaching a red signal with TPWS fitted will force you to keep your speed down. Not sure on numbers exactly. If the onward signal is showing a proceed aspect, you'll be able to approach at a higher speed.

I would also guess that passing a signal at danger is a more serious issue than overshooting a platform with the signal off. Somewhere like Birmingham New Street or Derby (Before the recent re-modelling) where you have no overlaps you could easily have a train yards in front of the signal on a conflicting route.

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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 04/08/2019 at 11:51 #119846
Late Turn
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pedroathome in post 119837 said:
Hawk777 in post 119836 said:
I’m curious about all the mentions of wanting to avoid SPADs. I know SPADs are bad, but isn’t overshooting the platform bad too? And if you don’t overshoot the platform, then surely you also didn’t SPAD, if the platform starter signal is red?
I can only speculate based on educated guesses, but here I go:

On a slightly different line, I would suggest that in part its also down to TPWS. Approaching a red signal with TPWS fitted will force you to keep your speed down. Not sure on numbers exactly. If the onward signal is showing a proceed aspect, you'll be able to approach at a higher speed.

I would also guess that passing a signal at danger is a more serious issue than overshooting a platform with the signal off. Somewhere like Birmingham New Street or Derby (Before the recent re-modelling) where you have no overlaps you could easily have a train yards in front of the signal on a conflicting route.

It's partly down to TPWS, especially at stations where the approach speed is relatively high. I know one medium-sized station with "TPWS-", much closer to the signal than (and in addition to) the normal loops, to make sure that you're really trundling in carefully!

More so, though, it's down to TOCs' defensive driving policies which vary but invariably mandate a maximum speed in the region of 15-20mph at the AWS magnet (if it's at the standard distance). Stockport, for an example that you'll be familiar with, is good for pretty much 40mph at the platform end with a decent 4-car set (still stopping well back from the signal), but if you're coming in with the starter on, you're instead doing 20mph tops at the platform end (where the magnet is, albeit at a bit more than the standard distance I'm sure).

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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 04/08/2019 at 12:28 #119850
Splodge
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Cheadle Hulme in the down direction is another, especially as it uses double-blocking, so if the platform starter is on you've already had to approach the previous signal held at danger which clears around the TPWS grids, and have to accelerate to reach the platform and slow down again. You can't use your normal approach that we use when the signal is off as the TPWS will get you even though you would stop comfortably at the stop board - it's caught a number of drivers out!

It can cost you a fair chunk of time with the double-blocking (prevalent throughout the Manchester South control area).

There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 06/08/2019 at 07:51 #119906
Giantray
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Working Charing Cross/Cannon Street & London Bridge for the last 30years, I have learnt that never give the train the road without TRTS, even if the Driver rings in and says they are ready to depart. As it is a terminal station, although the Driver says they are ready to start, I do not know what station staff are dealing with. Looking for Lost Property, Police in attendence, clearing up human waste, dealing with a sick passenger....all of which the Driver may not be aware of. It is the station staff's job to tell me when a train is ready to start. They have their duties to comply with before giving TRTS. At London Bridge through lines, I only wait for TRTS for trains terminating and restarting from there, although station staff do give TRTS for a train that is being held on a Red.
Professional Railwayman since 1981. Railway Historian (SER, LCDR)
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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 07/08/2019 at 19:18 #119947
KymriskaDraken
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MrBitsy in post 119812 said:
As others have said, it depends on location and traffic situation at the time.

When working Temple Meads, I will always wait for the TRTS. However, if I had an on time departure, slow service to Western-Super-Mare with the TRTS flashing, but also a late fast service to Taunton approaching Temple Meads, I will set the route straight through the station for the fast. There is a risk I never get the TRTS for the fast service due to sick passenger, stuck door etc, but its best to give the clear route to help it along.
If the stopper is first stop Nailsea I used run him ahead of the fast, especially if the fast is late. The one or two minutes you might tickle him by will almost certainly be made up between Worle Jn and Cogload. It's much easier to get away with this now that Yatton Loop is a Passenger one. Otherwise pull off for the stopper on the UM as far as Bedminster. Wait TRTS on the flyer and send him DM.

Kev
former Bristol Panel Signalman

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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 08/08/2019 at 00:45 #119952
MrBitsy
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Agreed Kev. Up Main to Bedminster keeps the on time departure for the stopper. Got a few of your colleagues on secondment at TVSC until trainees arrive and take on. When did you leave Bristol Panel?
TVSC Link 4 signaller - Temple Meads, Bath & Stoke Gifford
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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 08/08/2019 at 16:00 #119953
KymriskaDraken
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MrBitsy in post 119952 said:
Agreed Kev. Up Main to Bedminster keeps the on time departure for the stopper. Got a few of your colleagues on secondment at TVSC until trainees arrive and take on. When did you leave Bristol Panel?
I remember one summer Saturday when Control suggested we delay a stopper for a fast that was three hours late. That would have put 15 minutes into the stopper and buggered WsM for the rest of the afternoon. Our response was "Oh, the Signalman has just pulled off for the stopper..." If it's 180+ late all bets are off!

I left shortly after Failtrack was invented.

Kev

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