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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 12/06/2019 at 12:41 #118938
Peter Bennet
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GeoffM in post 118920 said:
Late Turn in post 118915 said:
Derby (certainly prior to last year’s resignalling) had a formal policy to encourage routes out of the station to be set prior to the arrival of through trains where possible, even those with crew changes, which I understand was to let drivers approach the normal stopping point a little more confidently.
That makes sense - no overlaps, so the train would have a route instead.

When we were setting up ARS for Stoke on Trent (in real life) the signallers wanted ARS to give the driver greens into the station. SoT does have overlaps but perhaps for similar reasons - bringing a train in faster.
Slightly off topic but related to overlaps. Apparently there was an incident at Pitlochry yesterday where new signalling has been installed with the signal half way down the platforms to allow for the overlap to be within the passing loop. This apparently is to permit trains to enter the station from both directions at the same time. Unfortunately whom ever thought this up did not appear to consider what would happen if two long-ish trains were passing (not entirely sure what the lengths were in this case) such that they fitted the loop but not with the signal placed in the middle of the platform.
Further details: http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/thread/503143/page1/

Peter

One of the great problems of our age is that we are governed by people who care more about feelings than they do about thoughts and ideas.
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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 12/06/2019 at 13:19 #118939
DriverCurran
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One train (1H89) was 735ft. Not sure how long the other was (5Z73)

Paul

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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 12/06/2019 at 14:07 #118940
jc92
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DriverCurran in post 118939 said:
One train (1H89) was 735ft. Not sure how long the other was (5Z73)

Paul
1H89 being the Royal scotsman set. Bet they weren't amused.

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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 12/06/2019 at 15:12 #118941
Ron_J
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Peter Bennet in post 118938 said:

Slightly off topic but related to overlaps. Apparently there was an incident at Pitlochry yesterday where new signalling has been installed with the signal half way down the platforms to allow for the overlap to be within the passing loop. This apparently is to permit trains to enter the station from both directions at the same time. Unfortunately whom ever thought this up did not appear to consider what would happen if two long-ish trains were passing (not entirely sure what the lengths were in this case) such that they fitted the loop but not with the signal placed in the middle of the platform.

Of course it was considered, the scheme plan was signed off by the Operations function and made it through several MSRPs long before any work began on the ground. The Operational Planning Rules were updated to reflect the shortened standage available - Monday’s issue was down to a NR Train Planning error. The situation at Pitlochry is no different from any other loop on a single line when it comes to overlength trains... two trains can’t cross if they’re both too long for the loop, it’s as simple as that.

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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 12/06/2019 at 16:42 #118942
bugsy
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Ron_J in post 118941 said:
The situation at Pitlochry is no different from any other loop on a single line when it comes to overlength trains... two trains can’t cross if they’re both too long for the loop, it’s as simple as that.
Has this situation occurred and if so, what was the resolution?

My goodness, that was difficult, but I managed it.
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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 12/06/2019 at 21:56 #118944
clive
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Ron_J in post 118941 said:

two trains can’t cross if they’re both too long for the loop, it’s as simple as that.
They can. It just requires a lot of shunting.

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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 13/06/2019 at 15:25 #118952
Ron_J
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Hardly something you’re going to launch into on the Highland Main Line with a loaded passenger train though, is it. And that’s before you consider that the Mk5 sleeper coach couplings are incompatible with standard drawgear.
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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 13/06/2019 at 16:49 #118953
Stephen Fulcher
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I'd love to read the log entries Ron!
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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 13/06/2019 at 19:31 #118955
Ron_J
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Stephen Fulcher in post 118953 said:
I'd love to read the log entries Ron!

I’m afraid I can’t help with that.

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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 13/06/2019 at 21:25 #118957
Steamer
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So out of interest, how was the situation resolved? Did one of them have to reverse back to Blair Atholl or Perth (assuming the length problem would be the same at Dunkeld)?
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 13/06/2019 at 21:34 #118958
Peter Bennet
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Steamer in post 118957 said:
So out of interest, how was the situation resolved? Did one of them have to reverse back to Blair Atholl or Perth (assuming the length problem would be the same at Dunkeld)?
I understand that they simply talked one (or both) trains past the offending signal(s). The issue is not with the length of the loops as such, it's that the signals are in the middle of the platforms.

Peter

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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 13/06/2019 at 21:56 #118959
Ron_J
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Peter Bennet in post 118958 said:
The issue is not with the length of the loops as such, it's that the signals are in the middle of the platforms.
The position of the signals reduces the standage available though, thereby effectively shortening the loop in each direction. There are also problems with the newly converted (to MSL) pedestrian level crossings south of the station, Dundarach and Prospect Place, which time out and give a failure indication whenever an overlength train stands in the station.

I do concur that this is definitely not the optimal solution we’d ideally choose as operators but it meets the criteria specifed in the project brief which was to increase capacity and reduce journey times by allowing simultaneous acceptance from either end.

We’re a long way from TRTS indications now!

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TRTS and the Proceed aspect 13/06/2019 at 22:40 #118960
Stephen Fulcher
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Ron_J in post 118955 said:
Stephen Fulcher in post 118953 said:
I'd love to read the log entries Ron!

I’m afraid I can’t help with that.
I meant the shunt Clive posted, not the actual incident.

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Pitlochry 13/06/2019 at 23:54 #118963
Hap
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Peter Bennet in post 118958 said:


I understand that they simply talked one (or both) trains past the offending signal(s). The issue is not with the length of the loops as such, it's that the signals are in the middle of the platforms.

Peter
Yeah one train was talked passed to allow the other to move. The new layout at PIT is a complete mind **** for train crew and passengers.

Though the log was an interesting read for this particular event.

The whole HML needs a TT reshuffle, in some way that most trains would pass South of Stanley Jn and between Blair and Dalwhinnie. And the sooner they get on with doubling the track from Kingussie the better... but good luck with that.

HAP
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Pitlochry 14/06/2019 at 14:45 #118972
Ron_J
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Hap in post 118963 said:
Yeah one train was talked passed to allow the other to move. The new layout at PIT is a complete mind **** for train crew and passengers.

Though the log was an interesting read for this particular event.
What was more interesting was what wasn’t written in the log...

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Pitlochry 14/06/2019 at 15:41 #118973
postal
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Ron_J in post 118972 said:
What was more interesting was what wasn’t written in the log...
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Pitlochry 15/06/2019 at 11:13 #119002
kbarber
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Ron_J in post 118972 said:
Hap in post 118963 said:
Yeah one train was talked passed to allow the other to move. The new layout at PIT is a complete mind **** for train crew and passengers.

Though the log was an interesting read for this particular event.
What was more interesting was what wasn’t written in the log...
Yes, I remember manoeuvres like that... either there was no 'company' around, or sometimes it was the company that gave us the confidence to do it!

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Pitlochry 17/06/2019 at 14:51 #119024
bill_gensheet
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Hap in post 118963 said:

The new layout at PIT is a complete mind **** for train crew and passengers.

The whole HML needs a TT reshuffle, in some way that most trains would pass South of Stanley Jn and between Blair and Dalwhinnie. And the sooner they get on with doubling the track from Kingussie the better... but good luck with that.
That pattern is how it used to be, and I believe the new hourly clockface timetable (Dec 2019 ?) has those, but also has crossings at Pitlochry and at Aviemore hourly, hence the work done to allow simultaneous arrivals.
The other crossing is presumably on the double north of Culloden - unless restoring double to Daviot is planned.

Bill

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