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| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 05/10/2019 at 19:06 #120743 | |
trolleybus
142 posts |
Simsig has just updated itself to 4.15. It happens that I'm half-way through running East Coastway, a simulation with large areas without TORR. I can no longer cancel a route right-click then cancel, I now need to right-click, click Cancel then move my mouse to the right to select Confirm. It's very, very annoying! Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 05/10/2019 at 19:16 #120744 | |
--miki--
68 posts |
You can hold Shift down and then right-click the signal, which cancels the route immediately.
Log in to reply The following users said thank you: DaveHarries, Banners88, darryl0768healy, trolleybus |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 05/10/2019 at 19:49 #120745 | |
KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
trolleybus in post 120743 said:Simsig has just updated itself to 4.15. It happens that I'm half-way through running East Coastway, a simulation with large areas without TORR. I can no longer cancel a route right-click then cancel, I now need to right-click, click Cancel then move my mouse to the right to select Confirm.Indeed it is. Quite unnecessary. Kev Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 05/10/2019 at 20:24 #120746 | |
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y10g9
895 posts |
It has been noted on Mantis (27549) I believe that the confirmation has been added to prevent stacked routes being cancelled without a confirmation. Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 05/10/2019 at 20:39 #120747 | |
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KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
y10g9 in post 120746 said:It has been noted on Mantis (27549)So in order to safeguard two sims we cause extra hassle for every other sim. Great idea. Kev Log in to reply The following user said thank you: trolleybus |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 05/10/2019 at 22:54 #120748 | |
VInce
579 posts |
Couldn't agree more. Just unnecessary. Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 05/10/2019 at 23:49 #120750 | |
jc92
3629 posts |
if right click cancels route is selected, no option to confirm is offered on cancelling the route this way. is this something that should exist where required?
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 06/10/2019 at 11:14 #120756 | |
andyb0607
260 posts |
jc92 in post 120750 said:if right click cancels route is selected, no option to confirm is offered on cancelling the route this way. is this something that should exist where required?If you hold down shift key when you right click it will bring up the context menu. Same applies if you don't have "right click cancels route" selected. If you hold down shift and right click it will just clear the route without bringing up the context menu Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 06/10/2019 at 11:22 #120757 | |
postal
5190 posts |
Edit: Deleted; added nothing to the core topic.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 06/10/2019 at 11:31 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 07/10/2019 at 18:38 #120806 | |
GeoffM
6282 posts 
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Such is life. You add something that's in the real world to a simulation of the real world, and now people don't like the realism! It has been logged for consideration (27587). SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 07/10/2019 at 18:58 #120809 | |
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jc92
3629 posts |
GeoffM in post 120806 said:Such is life. You add something that's in the real world to a simulation of the real world, and now people don't like the realism!I don't think the issue is with the realism (although out of interest are you saying the AUS systems have this confirm option too? How is that implemented?) I think it's more that for every other sim it isn't realistic (ie there's no confirm option when pulling an NX panel entry button or putting a lever back in a frame) so it might be better as either an option or a sim specific option. I have to say having tried the new test version of Moss Vale and having used the stacked routes option the confirm option absolutely makes sense because the screen can get quite confusing with multiple stacked routes set and the extra check has prevented at least one ACOA where I wanted to cancel a stacked route and almost picked to cancel the signal completely. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 07/10/2019 at 19:15 #120810 | |
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GeoffM
6282 posts
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jc92 in post 120809 said:GeoffM in post 120806 said:People seem to be getting hung up on Australian sims here. Yes, Moss Vale was one factor with stacked routes, but confirming a route cancel is not unique to Australian control system by any means - far from it. There's at least one mainline system in use in the UK that has it, plus a not certain on another system. That was the realism I was pointing out.Such is life. You add something that's in the real world to a simulation of the real world, and now people don't like the realism!I don't think the issue is with the realism (although out of interest are you saying the AUS systems have this confirm option too? How is that implemented?) I think it's more that for every other sim it isn't realistic (ie there's no confirm option when pulling an NX panel entry button or putting a lever back in a frame) so it might be better as either an option or a sim specific option. It was asked for, it was given, and some people don't like it. Hence the idea of it being an option. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 07/10/2019 at 21:06 #120816 | |
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postal
5190 posts |
GeoffM in post 120810 said:It was asked for, it was given, and some people don't like it. Hence the idea of it being an option.Perhaps that has flagged up a gap in the process about how a request should be made for a new innovation? For all users of SimSig there is the option of posting a new topic on the Forum if the user thinks there is an improvement opportunity. That would then place the suggestion firmly in the public arena and open to comment. For the developers and testers there is the option for posting such ideas or suggestions on Mantis. That gives the chance for others in that group to respond and add their point of view about why such an "improvement" might or might not be a good idea. A more limited arena but still opening up the issue for comment and debate. I don't recollect seeing this particular change being mooted in any public or semi-public area. Apologies if I've missed it anywhere. Does this implementation and then the subsequent furore suggest that there is a direct route to the owners of the core code that cuts out the open (or semi-open) assessment of an idea via the Forum or Mantis? If there had been some sort of open process with the opportunity for debate and comment before this change was made we might not be in the awkward place where we now find ourselves. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 07/10/2019 at 21:07 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 07/10/2019 at 21:15 #120817 | |
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GeoffM
6282 posts
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postal in post 120816 said:GeoffM in post 120810 said:While I get what you're saying, we'd never get anything done if every idea was up for discussion. The community is so large and broad that you'll never get an agreement. Similarly, what we think is a minor tweak is actually major to other people, and vice versa.It was asked for, it was given, and some people don't like it. Hence the idea of it being an option.Perhaps that has flagged up a gap in the process about how a request should be made for a new innovation? SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 09/10/2019 at 09:40 #120842 | |
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postal
5190 posts |
There are obviously many more important things than delving into the arcane world of process so this is a comment to bring out an issue rather than to suggest that any action (immediate or in the future) is required. Over the last few months, considerable time and effort has gone into the testing process for sims and TTs to make sure that the end product has been properly reviewed and that as far as possible bugs and issues found in the product have been corrected before release. This has been achieved by involving people from a wider spectrum rather than the previous system of a developer and his/her mates working through something before release. If we are satisfied that this is now a viable process for improving the SimSig product, should the same regime be applied to the core code? At the moment, changes are rolled out without any indication of what instigated the changes, what testing has been done to validate the changes and what independence there was about the testing programme. From the outside looking in, it certainly looks like changes are rolled out for test to those who have a stake in the issue (and I have been involved in that process myself) rather than the test going out to a wider group. Clearly the programme works pretty well for most of the time but there is obviously a difference between validation to confirm that something works in regard to a particular issue and testing in a wider context to make sure that things beyond the issue are not disturbed by the change. It would add a separate level of assurance if changes were tested using candidates from a rather wider spectrum of users than those having a direct stake in the updated issues before any release of a new version of the core code. That sort of process would clearly impinge on the freedom currently enjoyed by the developers of the core code but would the extra time and bureaucracy be a benefit to SimSig in the longer run? “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 09/10/2019 at 09:56 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 09/10/2019 at 10:49 #120844 | |
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Albert
1313 posts |
I have just got used to pressing the 'C' key twice to cancel a route. Works quite well, except in areas where signal identities start with a C (Carlisle, Cowlairs, etc.) where you need to press N and then C.
AJP in games Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 09/10/2019 at 11:27 #120845 | |
Giantray
330 posts |
It does seem like a strange idea that you have to click twice to replace a signal(route). It is like saying it is an emergency I need to replace the signal quickly, the system then delays things by saying "are you sure?". Would be interesting which systems have this? Westcad doesn't, even using keyboard commands.
Retired Professional Railwayman (1981-2023); Pway & S&T (1981-88); Former Signalman/Signaller/ Signalling Trainer (1989-2023) [AB, TCB, Mechanical, NX, WestCad, Hitachi SARS]; Railway Historian (esp.SER, LCDR); Member of The Permanent Way Institution.. Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 09/10/2019 at 13:58 #120849 | |
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metcontrol
217 posts |
Whilst not on the national network, the new CBTC system being rolled out on the sub-surface London Underground lines is littered with quite a few "are you sure?" type prompts - even when it comes to clearing down a previously called for route (or to give it it's correct term, cancelling the reservation.) Some of the thinking behind it is down to a reduction in time for certain actions. In the "old world" with traditional signalling there would be a delay during the release of signals previously cleared. The new world sees this delay reduced significantly and so maybe the extra prompt is there just to ensure you really want to do it.
Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 09/10/2019 at 16:05 #120853 | |
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GeoffM
6282 posts
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Following Postal's excellent suggestion that we discuss changes before implementing them, I am now formally opening a six month consultation period to discuss the merits of altering the behaviour of cancelling routes. Please submit your suggestions by postal (no pun intended) vote by April 9th 2020. A review period will then follow whereupon management will take discuss at the next board meeting. If it is approved then expect the change to be rolled in to the programme with delivery around Q4 2020. All in jest, of course. It's clearly unpopular and will be altered by the next release. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following users said thank you: JamesN, andyb0607, Giantray, Trainfan344 |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 09/10/2019 at 16:44 #120854 | |
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Albert
1313 posts |
If there were a vote, I would vote to change the keyboard shortcut for cancelling to C for all sims, including signal numbers that start with a C. I like to use the keyboard to select items from tooltip menus, and on the keyboard one C or two C's is not a huge difference. I'll happily open a new thread to discuss this though, as I came across a few more issues when trying to navigate menus using the keyboard. AJP in games Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 09/10/2019 at 17:50 #120855 | |
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jc92
3629 posts |
GeoffM in post 120853 said:Following Postal's excellent suggestion that we discuss changes before implementing them, I am now formally opening a six month consultation period to discuss the merits of altering the behaviour of cancelling routes. Please submit your suggestions by postal (no pun intended) vote by April 9th 2020. A review period will then follow whereupon management will take discuss at the next board meeting. If it is approved then expect the change to be rolled in to the programme with delivery around Q4 2020.have you thought about holding a referendum on the matter? no harm can come from it. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 09/10/2019 at 19:11 #120860 | |
Ar88
310 posts |
GeoffM in post 120853 said:Following Postal's excellent suggestion that we discuss changes before implementing them, I am now formally opening a six month consultation period to discuss the merits of altering the behaviour of cancelling routes. Please submit your suggestions by postal (no pun intended) vote by April 9th 2020. A review period will then follow whereupon management will take discuss at the next board meeting. If it is approved then expect the change to be rolled in to the programme with delivery around Q4 2020.What if you reach the agreed deadline without a deal? The Welsh contingent. Aron, or Ar to mates. Also known as 88E or ThatManCalledAr. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Trainfan344 |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 09/10/2019 at 19:59 #120863 | |
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GeoffM
6282 posts
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Let's try to keep politics off the forum, please.
SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 10/10/2019 at 07:17 #120870 | |
Peter Bennet
5360 posts
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GeoffM in post 120853 said:Following Postal's excellent suggestion that we discuss changes before implementing them, I am now formally opening a six month consultation period to discuss the merits of altering the behaviour of cancelling routes. Please submit your suggestions by postal (no pun intended) vote by April 9th 2020. A review period will then follow whereupon management will take discuss at the next board meeting. If it is approved then expect the change to be rolled in to the programme with delivery around Q4 2020.I'm not sure whether every word of this repost is jest but I think there's merit in Postal's excellent suggestion. Testers recently had an advance copy of what became 4.15 which was helpful, though the point raised in this thread was not noted as far as I'm aware. However, it might be clearer if we knew the parameters of the consequences of raising tickets in Mantis for anything wrong with it. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Confirm added to cancel on right-click 10/10/2019 at 22:37 #120891 | |
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GeoffM
6282 posts
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Peter Bennet in post 120870 said:GeoffM in post 120853 said:All core code changes are recorded in Mantis so the information was indeed there, just not priority headlined in big bold letters, and as you correctly state, the exe with it in was available to testers before release, though I realise it was a late tweak.Following Postal's excellent suggestion that we discuss changes before implementing them, I am now formally opening a six month consultation period to discuss the merits of altering the behaviour of cancelling routes. Please submit your suggestions by postal (no pun intended) vote by April 9th 2020. A review period will then follow whereupon management will take discuss at the next board meeting. If it is approved then expect the change to be rolled in to the programme with delivery around Q4 2020.I'm not sure whether every word of this repost is jest but I think there's merit in Postal's excellent suggestion. Testers recently had an advance copy of what became 4.15 which was helpful, though the point raised in this thread was not noted as far as I'm aware. However, it might be clearer if we knew the parameters of the consequences of raising tickets in Mantis for anything wrong with it. We are not going to be discussing every single feature change for reasons I have already explained. I'm not sure I fully understand your last sentence. SimSig Boss Last edited: 10/10/2019 at 22:38 by GeoffM Reason: None given Log in to reply |