Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released

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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 26/10/2019 at 01:45 #121335
whatlep
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A new timetable for Piccadilly, or more accurately London Road PSB, is now available for download. It represents the autumn 1977 timetable and presents as close a picture to that time as it's possible to get using the 1990s SimSig simulation. It's quite a contrast to today with few long-distance services, the CLC Liverpool route a backwater, but very intensive rush-hour suburban services that today's commuters can only dream about. For further understanding, files attached to this post showing the actual trackplans and signalling extant in 1977.

If any bugs or issues are found in the timetable, please report them using this thread. There are several known bugs and/or issues in the simulation logic that are noted in the full briefing notes to the timetable.
[attachment=10601]Altrincham resignalling 1971 - 2.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=10602]Altrincham resignalling 1971 - 3.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=10603]Altrincham resignalling 1971 - 5.jpg[/attachment]

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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 26/10/2019 at 13:43 #121340
Ray
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Many thanks. Looks like it will be a fairly complicated tt with lots of engine changes. Can someone remind me how the trains go to bed again. I have 5H80 waiting to go to Longsight Car MD. Where is this location? Do I wait for a slot ?
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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 26/10/2019 at 22:00 #121353
Phil-jmw
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Ray in post 121340 said:
Many thanks. Looks like it will be a fairly complicated tt with lots of engine changes. Can someone remind me how the trains go to bed again. I have 5H80 waiting to go to Longsight Car MD. Where is this location? Do I wait for a slot ?
You have to call Longsight Depot and tell them you have a train waiting, they will tell you where they want it sending and give you a slot in due course.

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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 27/10/2019 at 14:55 #121362
Ray
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Many thanks. I forgot about telephoning longsight so I was never getting a slot.
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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 27/10/2019 at 20:35 #121369
chrisdmadd
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Im in the first hour of this TT and im having trouble with 0M13 from platform 5 (364 signal) into the engine sidings.

The signal will not clear, however when testing routes from other platforms such as 6 and 4 they do clear.

Am i missing something?

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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 28/10/2019 at 00:32 #121371
jc92
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chrisdmadd in post 121369 said:
Im in the first hour of this TT and im having trouble with 0M13 from platform 5 (364 signal) into the engine sidings.

The signal will not clear, however when testing routes from other platforms such as 6 and 4 they do clear.

Am i missing something?
It will sit at red until the train occupies the country end TC for long enough. In 0M13s case its stuck behind the GF and will need authorising past. He should ring in and ask for it anyway.

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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 28/10/2019 at 11:25 #121382
Giantray
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4M68 from Millbrook to Trafford Park Freightliner goes all the way to MP705 at Cornbrook Jcn instead of stopping behind MP742 at Trafford Park East Jcn to reverse into Trafford Park Freightliner Depot. That means authorising a wrong direction move into the signal in rear for it then to take TL742 into the depot. Surely that isn't prototypical?
Professional Railwayman since 1981. Railway Historian (SER, LCDR)
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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 28/10/2019 at 15:06 #121384
whatlep
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Giantray in post 121382 said:
4M68 from Millbrook to Trafford Park Freightliner goes all the way to MP705 at Cornbrook Jcn instead of stopping behind MP742 at Trafford Park East Jcn to reverse into Trafford Park Freightliner Depot. That means authorising a wrong direction move into the signal in rear for it then to take TL742 into the depot. Surely that isn't prototypical?
In reality the train reversed at Trafford Park East Jn, using the position light signal (742) to gain access to Trafford Park. The simulation doesn't provide for a reversing move at MP742, so having it reverse at Cornbrook is the next "least worst" thing to maintain compliance with the 1977 timetable. It seemed a shame to lose these rather unusual workings!

Last edited: 28/10/2019 at 15:11 by whatlep
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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 28/10/2019 at 15:09 #121385
whatlep
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chrisdmadd in post 121369 said:
Im in the first hour of this TT and im having trouble with 0M13 from platform 5 (364 signal) into the engine sidings.

The signal will not clear, however when testing routes from other platforms such as 6 and 4 they do clear.

Am i missing something?
Situation described in the timetable notes (see "Timetable Description" under the "General" tab). It's a simulation bug that hasn't been fixed. There is another one getting light engines onto platform 9 from the engine siding, again described in the timetable notes.

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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 28/10/2019 at 19:21 #121387
chrisdmadd
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Ah i see, my bad, i did look at the manual but not the release notes.... cheers though
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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 30/10/2019 at 19:00 #121418
Dick
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At 9.36 2H71 is trapped in platform 10 by 5A34 in platform 9 awaiting loco 0A34 to form 1A34 with departure time of 10.12
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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 01/11/2019 at 03:34 #121433
whatlep
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Dick in post 121418 said:
At 9.36 2H71 is trapped in platform 10 by 5A34 in platform 9 awaiting loco 0A34 to form 1A34 with departure time of 10.12
I suspect you've allowed 5A34 into platform 9 too early. It isn't due into there until 09.37, one minute after 2H71 is due to leave.

In the real world, right up to 1998, 2H71 would have exited directly onto the slow lines, while 5A34 would have been OK to arrive slightly early via a parallel move.

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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 01/11/2019 at 08:38 #121434
Dick
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Thanks, that could well be the problem. I'm normally careful about allowing early moves in occupied platforms but failed to consider the problem of early moves blocking an adjacent platform.
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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 01/11/2019 at 15:15 #121439
whatlep
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Dick in post 121434 said:
Thanks, that could well be the problem. I'm normally careful about allowing early moves in occupied platforms but failed to consider the problem of early moves blocking an adjacent platform.
No problem. FWIW, I recall making the same error when testing the timetable!

The layout of platforms 10-11 in 1990 mode is a real pest. As noted in the timetable's guidance, it's only correct for 1998-2008. Before 1998, 10/11 were attached directly to platform 13 (blocking any up acceptance into that platform when used), giving much greater flexibility in the rush-hour. That was, of course, why they were there. I raised the issue as a "bug" when the simulation was first released, but was swiftly informed that the error was not material as "the functionality was the same". Not so, as you and many others have discovered, but I doubt we'll ever see a true 1990s mode for Piccadilly.

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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 01/11/2019 at 15:37 #121440
Dick
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Thanks for the extra info and thanks for a great timetable, certainly keeps you on your toes with all the 5H80s off to bed after the morning peak!!
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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 01/11/2019 at 22:29 #121447
stighetl
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I love timetables set in the 70's and 80's. I don't own Manchester Piccadilly yet. How difficult is it to play this simulation solo? Frankly, it looks pretty difficult.
- Stig
Last edited: 01/11/2019 at 22:29 by stighetl
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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 03/11/2019 at 03:26 #121459
whatlep
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stighetl in post 121447 said:
I love timetables set in the 70's and 80's. I don't own Manchester Piccadilly yet. How difficult is it to play this simulation solo? Frankly, it looks pretty difficult.
It's definitely not easy solo, but it can be done without too much angst, especially if you read all the timetable guidance and go down to real time or at most 2:1 speed-up in the rush hours. It's certainly much more possible solo than the standard SimSig timetables since you're only dealing with the south Manchester area, as explained in the timetable guidance. It's very useful to know the train headcodes for class 2 (local passenger) trains as you can then understand the route the train will take. I've attached the 1977 headcodes from the working timetable for the south Manchester area for information/ help.

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Manchester Piccadilly 1977 timetable released 03/11/2019 at 18:30 #121465
whatlep
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V1.1 of the 1977 timetable is now available. It corrects various instances of stop times being used at junctions (mainly Cornbrook) rather than the intendeed passing times.
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