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Playing without ARS

You are here: Home > Forum > Miscellaneous > The real thing (anything else rail-oriented) > Playing without ARS

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Playing without ARS 14/11/2019 at 12:11 #121626
Brytenwalda
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8 posts
I wonder, how realistic is it to play without ARS on routes that can be managed by hand, like Waterloo at night? I'm quite new to signalling but I'm under the impression that it's a standard piece of equipment today, isn't it?
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Playing without ARS 14/11/2019 at 12:55 #121629
JamesN
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1129 posts
No it's by no means standard equipment. As more areas come under control of modern VDU-based signalling centres it is becoming more prevalent; but I'd wager we're not yet at the tipping point of ARS (or equivalents) controlling more railway than not.

As for realism for turning it off - it's a tool to aid signallers workload. I know a couple who refuse to use it, and it can be overridden/inhibited by the signaller.

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Playing without ARS 14/11/2019 at 15:40 #121634
jc92
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2737 posts
From a realism point of view, several Sims have ARS where the real thing doesn't so in those cases it'd be more realistic not to use it. Waterloo being a good example.
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Playing without ARS 14/11/2019 at 16:31 #121638
GeoffM
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4662 posts
jc92 in post 121634 said:
From a realism point of view, several Sims have ARS where the real thing doesn't so in those cases it'd be more realistic not to use it. Waterloo being a good example.
Actually it's not a good example at all! Wimbledon (Waterloo) had (and is still operating) the first proper installation of ARS on a panel*, but it's not 100% coverage. The sim as a "per ASC" mode for ARS which replicates this.

* For the pedants, yes Haywards Heath had a trial version of ARS but was short lived. Wimbledon's ARS is the IECC version of ARS but has a number of differences from the VDU systems with IECC ARS. There have also been panel versions of junction route setting systems but these, to the best of my knowledge, were all very simple first-come-first-served style.

SimSig Boss
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Playing without ARS 14/11/2019 at 16:53 #121640
jc92
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2737 posts
GeoffM in post 121638 said:
jc92 in post 121634 said:
From a realism point of view, several Sims have ARS where the real thing doesn't so in those cases it'd be more realistic not to use it. Waterloo being a good example.
Actually it's not a good example at all! Wimbledon (Waterloo) had (and is still operating) the first proper installation of ARS on a panel*, but it's not 100% coverage. The sim as a "per ASC" mode for ARS which replicates this.

* For the pedants, yes Haywards Heath had a trial version of ARS but was short lived. Wimbledon's ARS is the IECC version of ARS but has a number of differences from the VDU systems with IECC ARS. There have also been panel versions of junction route setting systems but these, to the best of my knowledge, were all very simple first-come-first-served style.
I probably should've clarified that I spose although Waterloo itself doesn't have any ARS.

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Playing without ARS 14/11/2019 at 22:09 #121648
MrBitsy
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120 posts
Many signallers turn it off. At TVSC there are desks virtually impossible without ARS on. I use it every shift and in conjunction with Traffic Management it does a good job. Of course, just as signallers makes mistakes, so does ARS! Doesnt take long to learn what ARS gets wrong so you plan for them.
TVSC Link 4 signaller - Temple Meads, Bath & Stoke Gifford
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Playing without ARS 16/11/2019 at 08:37 #121696
clive
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1967 posts
GeoffM in post 121638 said:

Wimbledon (Waterloo) had (and is still operating) the first proper installation of ARS on a panel*, but it's not 100% coverage. The sim as a "per ASC" mode for ARS which replicates this.

* For the pedants, yes Haywards Heath had a trial version of ARS but was short lived. Wimbledon's ARS is the IECC version of ARS but has a number of differences from the VDU systems with IECC ARS. There have also been panel versions of junction route setting systems but these, to the best of my knowledge, were all very simple first-come-first-served style.
What about London Transport's "programme machines"? Those are ARS in effect and many were/are worked from panels.

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Playing without ARS 16/11/2019 at 20:10 #121713
casey jones
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59 posts
I know a few signallers who switch off the ARS on the Paddington Desk at the TVSC
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Playing without ARS 17/11/2019 at 21:11 #121759
Jan
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668 posts
clive in post 121696 said:
GeoffM in post 121638 said:

There have also been panel versions of junction route setting systems but these, to the best of my knowledge, were all very simple first-come-first-served style.
What about London Transport's "programme machines"? Those are ARS in effect and many were/are worked from panels.

Wouldn't they fall somewhere in-between, though? They're certainly not just a simply first-come-first-served system, but their regulating strategies are still rather limited compared to ARS - if I'm reading this and this correctly, it basically boils down to "delay route setting for a little if trains arrive out of booked order to give the signalman a chance to intervene", plus at some locations also "hold trains to time if they're early".

Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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Playing without ARS 18/11/2019 at 00:09 #121762
TUT
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LU programme machines are a form of automatic route setting (all lower case), but they're not Automatic Route Setting (ARS) (all upper case) as found on Network Rail.

I agree with jan that they fall somewhere in between.

It's also sort of true that programme machines are sort of operated from a panel, in so far as push buttons of the one control switch variety (à la Cathcart) are provided for the signaller to set routes themselves. These were once provided in drawers as it was foreseen that they would rarely be required. They then had to be moved onto the desks because they were required...

However an LUL regulating room is very different from a panel signal box. So again, it's a case of somewhere in between. A lot of controls in LU regulating rooms - as well as a lot of the information displayed on the diagrams - is for the programme machines and a lot of control can be exercised through interaction with them. And then you also have push buttons for manual route setting too. Points cannot be individually controlled from the regulating room and the position of points is not indicated. Regulating rooms were initially intended to be just that - regulating rooms.

Where I disagree with Jan is I think you may have tried to boil things down a little too far if you don't mind me saying so.

User Harsig provides quite a good overview in this not overly long post:

http://districtdavesforum.co.uk/post/18607/thread

If a train arrives at a diverging junction which the system isn't expecting, then a warning is sent and there is a delay to allow the signaller to intervene. But I wouldn't necessarily say regulating strategies boil down to that. You can put the programme machine into fist come first served mode, you can put it into push button mode and set routes yourself, and then there are facilities for interacting with the programme machine to step the machine over trains that haven't run and to add extra trains

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Playing without ARS 18/11/2019 at 09:31 #121766
Jan
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668 posts
TUT in post 121762 said:
But I wouldn't necessarily say regulating strategies boil down to that.

You're right that additional interventions are possible - I guess what I meant to say is what the programme machines can do if left to their own devices.

Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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