Query: Y not running unless X runs

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Query: Y not running unless X runs 31/12/2019 at 16:35 #122673
DaveHarries
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Greetings all,

Working on my Exeter TT I have another query. Answer probably right under my nose (as the saying goes) but still.

I have a freight train - 3Z03 (1015 Exeter Riverside NY - Exeter St. Davids Fuel Point) which arrives at the FP at 1026, then returns under the same code about 90 minutes later. It seems to me that there is no option to prevent the return Exeter SD Fuel Point - Exeter Riverside NY from running without the 1015 operating first.

Any ideas?
Dave

Last edited: 31/12/2019 at 16:36 by DaveHarries
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Query: Y not running unless X runs 31/12/2019 at 16:41 #122674
Steamer
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Use the rule "Must appear X minutes after Y leaves the area".

If the first train doesn't enter, it never exits, so the second train will never run.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Query: Y not running unless X runs 31/12/2019 at 16:46 #122675
MarkC
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You can use a decision for this and a rule

The rule Y must enter 90 mins after X leaves the area

The same desision applied to both trains
you set up a desision lets call it 3Z03 and have 2 choices one called "Run" and the other "Not Run" (or other option)

You go to the timetable of both trains put in the desision name and the choice "Run" this will mean both portions will run if "Run" is selected and both will not run if "Not Run" is selected.

It's not my fault! I was left unsupervised.
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Query: Y not running unless X runs 31/12/2019 at 17:26 #122676
Phil-jmw
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DaveHarries in post 122673 said:
I have a freight train - 3Z03 (1015 Exeter Riverside NY - Exeter St. Davids Fuel Point) which arrives at the FP at 1026, then returns under the same code about 90 minutes later.
Digressing slightly from the original subject of your post Dave, do you have a NR UTU entering Riverside Yard early in the morning and departing again mid-late evening? I ask as this 'freight train' sounds like a daytime UTU fuel and water move, where the train goes from Riverside to the depot to fuel the loco along with the generators located on the test coach, DBSO and/or generator coach, and also replenish the domestic and test water tanks on the train. These moves do take approximately 90 mins - 2hrs.

Phil.

Last edited: 31/12/2019 at 17:29 by Phil-jmw
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Query: Y not running unless X runs 31/12/2019 at 19:49 #122679
clive
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MarkC in post 122675 said:
You can use a decision for this and a rule

The rule Y must enter 90 mins after X leaves the area

The same desision applied to both trains
You don't need a decision. Make the first train (X) have a 50% (or whatever you want) probability of running. As Steamer says, if X doesn't run the rule will stop Y from running.

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Query: Y not running unless X runs 31/12/2019 at 19:57 #122680
Phil-jmw
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clive in post 122679 said:
MarkC in post 122675 said:
You can use a decision for this and a rule

The rule Y must enter 90 mins after X leaves the area

The same desision applied to both trains
You don't need a decision. Make the first train (X) have a 50% (or whatever you want) probability of running. As Steamer says, if X doesn't run the rule will stop Y from running.
If the move in question is the UTU fuelling/watering move I outlined in my earlier reply Clive and is happening on a Tuesday morning then it has to run otherwise there is a risk of the loco running short of fuel by the end of the week and the test water will run out before the end of the next-but-one shift, as the UTU shift the night before tested Reading - Cogload Jn leaving it with less than half a tank of test water, and stables at Penzance the following morning with no access to fuel or water and does not return to Exeter til Thursday morning, where it will then be watered to give enough test water for Thursday night Exeter - Salisbury & return and Friday night Cogload Jn - Reading.

Last edited: 31/12/2019 at 20:07 by Phil-jmw
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Query: Y not running unless X runs 01/01/2020 at 16:27 #122685
DaveHarries
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Phil-jmw in post 122680 said:
If the move in question is the UTU fuelling/watering move I outlined in my earlier reply Clive [.....]

Indeed it is. Train 3J13.

I have the freights done for the Tuesday (17th December) timetable but have had to use the freight workings of 07th January 2020 as the data for 17th December was unavailable. Now to work out how to go about the Fairwater Yard trains (6C72 and 6C84, the latter not running if the former runs; 6C72 running as needed) which, it seems, do not have reversing moves out of Fairwater Yard.

Dave

Last edited: 01/01/2020 at 16:28 by DaveHarries
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Query: Y not running unless X runs 01/01/2020 at 17:52 #122686
Meld
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DaveHarries in post 122685 said:
Phil-jmw in post 122680 said:
If the move in question is the UTU fuelling/watering move I outlined in my earlier reply Clive [.....]

Indeed it is. Train 3J13.

I have the freights done for the Tuesday (17th December) timetable but have had to use the freight workings of 07th January 2020 as the data for 17th December was unavailable. Now to work out how to go about the Fairwater Yard trains (6C72 and 6C84, the latter not running if the former runs; 6C72 running as needed) which, it seems, do not have reversing moves out of Fairwater Yard.

Dave
Right - 3J13 is not a test train - its part of the St Blazey rail head treatment program

Where is the data for the 17th December unavailable, a couple of times over the past few weeks I've mentioned http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/ the data goes back at least a year, you just can't help some people can you?

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Query: Y not running unless X runs 01/01/2020 at 18:20 #122687
DaveHarries
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Meld in post 122686 said:
Where is the data for the 17th December unavailable, a couple of times over the past few weeks I've mentioned http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/ the data goes back at least a year, you just can't help some people can you?

Thanks for the link. I checked it and what is listed there I have, as it turns out, already written in along with a couple of additional ones picked from the Network Rail-issued WTT. The Tuesday 17-Dec-2019 TT now has 452 trains in total with quite a bit of activity with things going from / to Exeter Riverside Yard. Going to do Monday 16-Dec-2019 freight and then I will work on the settings for each of the trains in the TTs but it may be a while before I get these TTs released. Not being able to go and see what is working what makes things trickier so you can't, for example, tell by looking on the WTT which London units are 9-cars.

Is that a list of what ran on the day or do I assume that it didn't run if there are no entries under the "Live Data"?

Dave

Last edited: 01/01/2020 at 18:26 by DaveHarries
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Query: Y not running unless X runs 01/01/2020 at 18:31 #122688
Meld
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Yes all live running data from the day is retained - no data = no service
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Query: Y not running unless X runs 01/01/2020 at 20:26 #122689
Phil-jmw
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Meld in post 122686 said:
DaveHarries in post 122685 said:
Phil-jmw in post 122680 said:
If the move in question is the UTU fuelling/watering move I outlined in my earlier reply Clive [.....]

Indeed it is. Train 3J13.

I have the freights done for the Tuesday (17th December) timetable but have had to use the freight workings of 07th January 2020 as the data for 17th December was unavailable. Now to work out how to go about the Fairwater Yard trains (6C72 and 6C84, the latter not running if the former runs; 6C72 running as needed) which, it seems, do not have reversing moves out of Fairwater Yard.

Dave
Right - 3J13 is not a test train - its part of the St Blazey rail head treatment program

Where is the data for the 17th December unavailable, a couple of times over the past few weeks I've mentioned http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/ the data goes back at least a year, you just can't help some people can you?
I didn't think 3J13 sounded right for an IM movement. Ours are xQxx or xZxx. Just looking back through old rosters, there were no UTU's in Exeter that week.

Last edited: 01/01/2020 at 20:29 by Phil-jmw
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Query: Y not running unless X runs 03/01/2020 at 14:34 #122722
Edgemaster
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Meld in post 122688 said:
Yes all live running data from the day is retained - no data = no service ;)
Or the train failed to report to TRUST for some reason. (Sometimes VSTPs are missed).

Last edited: 03/01/2020 at 14:35 by Edgemaster
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Query: Y not running unless X runs 09/01/2020 at 12:34 #122809
bill_gensheet
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clive in post 122679 said:
MarkC in post 122675 said:
You can use a decision for this and a rule

The rule Y must enter 90 mins after X leaves the area

The same desision applied to both trains
You don't need a decision. Make the first train (X) have a 50% (or whatever you want) probability of running. As Steamer says, if X doesn't run the rule will stop Y from running.
In this case 'decision' may not be the best choice for the second part of the working, as you need to allow for late running.
A decision for the initial part is fine, or just use running %age if there are no dependencies

Bill

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