Upcoming Games


Full list
Add a game

Performance analysis F5

You are here: Home > Forum > General > General questions, comments, and issues > Performance analysis F5

Page 1 of 1

Performance analysis F5 17/05/2020 at 21:41 #126891
northroad
Avatar
810 posts
Every so often we get questions about the above function. Previous problems seem to be answered with it's now fixed answers. Is it because the function is applicable to each and every sim and therefore needs to be fixed for each and every sim or is it now part of the core code and may not be fixed
Can anyone explain what or why I have a problem with the one below and should it be relied upon not as an ongoig performance or one that should only be used upon completion of the full timetable being played.

Having played Leeds Ardsley for approx. 45 minutes game time now with the standard timetable which starts at 04:45 I get the following status: -

Analysis of your performance and score

Trains passing timing points: 23 total timing points
On time: 21 (91%)
2 mins late: 2 (9%)
5 mins late: 0 (0%)
Over 5 mins late: 0 (0%)

Minutes lost/gained overall:
Total minutes lost by you: 1
Total minutes recovered by you: 0

Trains using the correct platforms: 1 occasions
Correct: 1 (100%)
Opposite: 0 (0%)
Incorrect: 0 (0%)

Miscellaneous:
Total routes cancelled with trains approaching: 0
Total wrong routes set for trains: 0
Total joining moves abandoned: 0
Total trains removed: 0
Total trains shortened: 0
Other points lost: 0

TOTAL SCORE 178 OUT OF 182 (98%)

Surely if I have 2 trains passing timing point 2 mins late then I must have more than 1 in the minutes lost by you total, or is this all connected with the timings as shown in the timetable being at fault and not really minutes lost by the actions of the signaller.


Geoff

Never apologise son, it's a sign of weakness (John Wayne)
Log in to reply
Performance analysis F5 17/05/2020 at 21:54 #126894
Steamer
Avatar
3151 posts
Were any trains late entering the area, and are you aware of any trains being delayed while in the area?

As I understand it, the minutes lost/gained ignores entry delays- so a train entering 3 minutes late and exiting 3 minutes late will be logged as late at timing points, but the minutes lost by you will be 0. The minutes lost/gained by you might also only be calculated when the train exits the area or terminates, but I'm not certain.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Log in to reply
Performance analysis F5 17/05/2020 at 22:04 #126896
northroad
Avatar
810 posts
No all trains entered on time.

Geoo

Never apologise son, it's a sign of weakness (John Wayne)
Log in to reply
Performance analysis F5 17/05/2020 at 22:49 #126897
postal
Avatar
4194 posts
Online
northroad in post 126896 said:
No all trains entered on time.

Geoo
What if a train entered to time, lost time to its first timing point then regained time before the second timing point?

"No question is too stupid, there are just some stupid answers" - Dr. Michael Reece, 12/08/1927 - 03/06/2019. Electrical engineer and inventor
Log in to reply
Performance analysis F5 17/05/2020 at 23:43 #126899
northroad
Avatar
810 posts
So is that because: -
A) The sim era set ups are different to the date of the timetable I.e. Line speed between timing points.
B) Any pathing or Engineering allowances in the timetable are not recognised by the sim.
C) The sim does not take what you are saying in your reply and is only recognising the delay but not any recovery that is made up whilst still in the sim.

I know I am being pickie with this but when these gratefully organised mega chains are organised and then the performance tables are released then not to much should be read into them.

Geoff

Never apologise son, it's a sign of weakness (John Wayne)
Log in to reply
Performance analysis F5 18/05/2020 at 00:33 #126900
postal
Avatar
4194 posts
Online
northroad in post 126899 said:
So is that because: -
A) The sim era set ups are different to the date of the timetable I.e. Line speed between timing points.
B) Any pathing or Engineering allowances in the timetable are not recognised by the sim.
C) The sim does not take what you are saying in your reply and is only recognising the delay but not any recovery that is made up whilst still in the sim.

I know I am being pickie with this but when these gratefully organised mega chains are organised and then the performance tables are released then not to much should be read into them.

Geoff
It's not as easy as it looks!

Things like the acceleration/braking rates built into the core code are broad-brush measures at trying to reproduce what a real train would do. Most SimSig TTs will have the "default" settings for the various train types (commuter, InterCity, normal freight etc.). These settings normally come somewhere close to allowing a SimSig train to run to a real life schedule. However they are skewed because the acceleration rates are calculated on the basis of a curve levelling out at the maximum speed of the train as specified in the train type. This does not allow for trains with excess power (e.g. a Freightliner with a couple of 86s at the front) which could easily exceed the speed limit if power was the only criterion. They would have a far steeper acceleration curve with the power having to be cut back at line speed as compared with a consist that would reach the maximum speed as a balancing speed. That sometimes means a bit of creativity on the part of the TT writer. If you look at something like the Carlisle 79 TT, an example is the double-headed Freightliners showing with InterCity acceleration rates. This is needed to give a better approximation to the acceleration rates the trains would achieve in order to run to the timings in the real world TT. Setting those rates is all part of the testing and validation that goes into creating a timetable that is a realistic approximation of what actually happened.

Even with the "default" settings, things are always an approximation rather than an accurate representation so it is quite feasible for a train to lose or gain SimSig time on a sector of the journey even if the end-to-end time is about right.

While minutes lost are a stick used to beat the modern-day signaller about the head, for SimSig purposes I would reckon that the critical measures are most importantly routes cancelled then wrong routes set.

"No question is too stupid, there are just some stupid answers" - Dr. Michael Reece, 12/08/1927 - 03/06/2019. Electrical engineer and inventor
Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: northroad
Performance analysis F5 18/05/2020 at 21:24 #126920
bill_gensheet
Avatar
429 posts
It is not only in SimSig land that this applies.

I have a 1982 WTT and a train timing load D350 (ie 350 tons, 11 coaches) that was only ever loco +2.
Real life driver would simply take it easy (or not if a tea brew was in the offing......).
There is a relatively small repertoire of timing loads as well.

Bill

Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: northroad
Performance analysis F5 18/05/2020 at 21:54 #126921
GeoffM
Avatar
4867 posts
Every train entering has a delay figure associated with it. That figure is subtracted from timed locations so if a train entered 5 late, and passed every location 5 late, and exited 5 late, then you've neither recovered nor lost any time for that train. So while it will report that the train was actually 5 late at X, your score is not 5 late but treated as on-time for scoring purposes not reporting purposes. Engineering/pathing allowances are like free minutes you can use to recover time and do not directly count in scoring.

If a train enters 5 late and exits 5 early then you've gained 10 minutes. This is completely separate from intermediate timing points.

It is what it is, it will never be what everybody wants because everybody has different opinions, and I've always said that it's an indication of performance - if you ran the same scenario next time then your aim is to improve on that score.

SimSig Boss
Last edited: 18/05/2020 at 22:15 by GeoffM
Reason: None given

Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: Steamer
Performance analysis F5 18/05/2020 at 22:49 #126923
Steamer
Avatar
3151 posts
GeoffM said:
That figure is subtracted from timed locations so if a train entered 5 late, and passed every location 5 late, and exited 5 late, then you've neither recovered nor lost any time for that train. So while it will report that the train was actually 5 late at X, your score is not 5 late but treated as on-time for scoring purposes not reporting purposes.
Just to clarify- would the performance analysis record that the train passed all of its timing points on time (initial delay ignored) or 5 late (as per the timetable)?

Quote:
Engineering/pathing allowances are like free minutes you can use to recover time and do not directly count in scoring.
Does this mean a train that enters 5 late, has 5 mins recovery time and exits on time is scored as "5 minutes recovered by you"?

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 18/05/2020 at 22:50 by Steamer
Reason: None given

Log in to reply