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| Use of the white shunt arrows at Waverley 21/08/2020 at 17:12 #130912 | |
bugsy
1695 posts |
The Edinburgh manual states: "Use white shunt ahead button for reversals at signal 482/484/486/488 & 844 (Mound Tunnel)" When running through the August 2006 tt there have been plenty of occasions when I have been very tempted to use these arrows for manoeuvres other than shunting. However, I resisted the temptation. I’ve now started a re-run of the same timetable. I know that it’s probably unacceptable to some and would be cheating, but it would help to keep things moving. Would it incur a penalty score if I did it? ...  Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Airvan00 |
| Use of the white shunt arrows at Waverley 21/08/2020 at 17:30 #130913 | |
Hap
985 posts |
So what you're saying is that you want to route a train out that's going to Haymarket by using the shunt arrows, therefor giving the train out of the platforms the cats eyes rather than the main aspect?
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| Use of the white shunt arrows at Waverley 21/08/2020 at 18:17 #130914 | |
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bugsy
1695 posts |
Yes, that's right. I know that it wouldn't be done in reality because it's not a shunt move. Maybe I won't do it. Shouldn't really cheat. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Last edited: 21/08/2020 at 18:19 by bugsy Reason: Added text Log in to reply |
| Use of the white shunt arrows at Waverley 21/08/2020 at 19:55 #130920 | |
lazzer
604 posts |
I can't work out WHY you'd want to do this, except to avoid the sim setting the overlap of the main aspect signal. In real life, setting a route to the arrow (and giving the driver the dummy instead of main aspect) would delay a train expecting to pass the next main aspect signal in two ways. First, the driver would question why they didn't have the main aspect signal they would clearly be expecting. Secondly, if they did accept the route they would (and should) proceed at caution up to the next signal, as one would be expected to do when given a position light signal. I don't know if a train would proceed more slowly in the sim if given the route you want to give them. I've never tried it to compare the train speeds leaving the station. Log in to reply |
| Use of the white shunt arrows at Waverley 21/08/2020 at 20:05 #130924 | |
Stephen Fulcher
2025 posts |
The only reason I can think of where it would be allowed to signal a passenger out on the sub is if some kind of failure prevented the main aspect from clearing BUT only after the driver was advised of the reason. It certainly wouldn’t be permitted just to avoid needing an overlap due to another train crossing in front. Log in to reply |
| Use of the white shunt arrows at Waverley 21/08/2020 at 20:13 #130925 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
Stephen Fulcher in post 130924 said:The only reason I can think of where it would be allowed to signal a passenger out on the sub is if some kind of failure prevented the main aspect from clearing BUT only after the driver was advised of the reason.You'd be going down the tea and no biscuits route under some circumstances. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Use of the white shunt arrows at Waverley 21/08/2020 at 20:31 #130926 | |
GeoffM
6282 posts |
Stephen Fulcher in post 130924 said:The only reason I can think of where it would be allowed to signal a passenger out on the sub is if some kind of failure prevented the main aspect from clearing BUT only after the driver was advised of the reason.In many places, track circuits aren't even required to be clear in the route, let alone any kind of overlap. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Use of the white shunt arrows at Waverley 21/08/2020 at 21:06 #130928 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2025 posts |
Indeed, most of the Western panels were like this.
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| Use of the white shunt arrows at Waverley 21/08/2020 at 21:25 #130931 | |
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bugsy
1695 posts |
Thought that maybe when you've got a train going from Haymarket to Waverley via "w" and another ready to depart Waverley, also via "w" I could speed things up by departing via "x" using the shunt arrows to get it moving. After reading some of the comments I've decided that it's not a good idea so won't now be doing it. Departing train will just have to wait. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Use of the white shunt arrows at Waverley 21/08/2020 at 22:01 #130933 | |
postal
5190 posts |
bugsy in post 130931 said:Thought that maybe when you've got a train going from Haymarket to Waverley via "w" and another ready to depart Waverley, also via "w" I could speed things up by departing via "x" using the shunt arrows to get it moving.Nothing to stop you using any of the four lines (except for electrification issues) but the overlaps are restrictive whichever way you try and work it. Bear in mind that there are many instances through the day where a train running even one minute out of its booked timings could benefit from a different route through Princes St Gardens as compared with the route directed by the TT. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Use of the white shunt arrows at Waverley 21/08/2020 at 22:53 #130937 | |
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bugsy
1695 posts |
postal in post 130933 said:bugsy in post 130931 said:Now that's an interesting point. Can't remember using a route that differed from the one timetabled but, as you say, it could be beneficial to do so.Thought that maybe when you've got a train going from Haymarket to Waverley via "w" and another ready to depart Waverley, also via "w" I could speed things up by departing via "x" using the shunt arrows to get it moving.Nothing to stop you using any of the four lines (except for electrification issues) but the overlaps are restrictive whichever way you try and work it. Bear in mind that there are many instances through the day where a train running even one minute out of its booked timings could benefit from a different route through Princes St Gardens as compared with the route directed by the TT. Thanks for the tip 
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| Use of the white shunt arrows at Waverley 22/08/2020 at 00:47 #130941 | |
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Hap
985 posts |
In the instance that you've brought to the forum attention, you couldn't do that. Anything for 20/21/SLS/SLW would require W. Anything coming out from 14/13/12...etc... is stuck until the overlap on that X/o before the mound tunnels is cleared. I would really err on the side of caution when changing lines from booked TT as you are extremely limited as to where a train can go, especially through trains. W & Z give you the most flexibility for the through lines. X only give you access to 11/10, but 10 only if 11 is clear. Then you have to take into account platform lengths, joins/splits, platform occupancy. In real life if train is late coming in and a departing train is going to have a delay because of it, then it has that delay. We can't just go willy nilly and start through trains off booked route for the sake of a couple of minutes. trying to keep one train on time by diverting another has a knock on affect, potentially, through the full network. 1 minute at Edinburgh can be 200 minutes at Euston. In terms of going West, yes you could put anything through either platform at HYM EXCEPT anything going to Midcalder. But the TT is designed to take into account the speed reductions for each X/O from the E&G to the Fifes and vice versa. 40mph rather than a straight line 90mph. All those X/O are approach release so you're basically at crawling speed before the signal will release, thus adding more time to the delay. During disruption then yes, we'll take routes out of Edinburgh to get moving. How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue Log in to reply |
| Use of the white shunt arrows at Waverley 22/08/2020 at 10:10 #130944 | |
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bugsy
1695 posts |
Hap, I really appreciate you giving your local knowledge and I'll take onboard what you have said. As you say, a minute or two delay isn't that important. Thanks
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