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Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction.

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Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 16:12 #133885
bugsy
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I've no doubt that most of you have heard about the train which travelled through an Emergency Speed Restriction of 20mph at approximately 117mph.
After watching a video on Youtube explaining what happened, (posted by a train driver), I was wondering how much trouble the driver is actually in, if at all, considering the circumstances as described in the video.

I will understand if this cannot be discussed on this Forum.

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
Last edited: 15/11/2020 at 16:13 by bugsy
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Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 16:23 #133887
Steamer
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I assume you're referring to the incident at Dauntsey, reported in this item from the RAIB? https://www.gov.uk/government/news/overspeeding-incident-at-dauntsey-wiltshire?utm_source=624e672f-29c4-4641-9555-1d8e54edbdeb&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 16:37 #133888
JamesN
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The incident was months ago, as far as I understand the driver has been fully exonerated.

The RAIB report linked above outlines the mitigation as to how the blame can’t be levelled at the driver.

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Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 16:42 #133889
bugsy
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Steamer in post 133887 said:
I assume you're referring to the incident at Dauntsey, reported in this item from the RAIB? https://www.gov.uk/government/news/overspeeding-incident-at-dauntsey-wiltshire?utm_source=624e672f-29c4-4641-9555-1d8e54edbdeb&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate
Yes. I wasn't aware that a report had already been published. I shall read it shortly.

Thanks

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
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Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 16:45 #133890
bugsy
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JamesN in post 133888 said:
The incident was months ago, as far as I understand the driver has been fully exonerated.

The RAIB report linked above outlines the mitigation as to how the blame can’t be levelled at the driver.
I'm glad about that.

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
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Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 18:52 #133892
postal
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If you are so minded, you can sign up to get e-mail notification from RAIB when reports are issued at https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/email-signup.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 15/11/2020 at 18:53 by postal
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Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 20:23 #133896
bugsy
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postal in post 133892 said:
If you are so minded, you can sign up to get e-mail notification from RAIB when reports are issued at https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/email-signup.
Thanks. I'll do that as I find the reports quite interesting reading.

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
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Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 15/11/2020 at 23:12 #133897
Edgemaster
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tl;dr (from memory, some details may be incorrect)
A long standing TSR of 30/125 was changed at relatively short notice to an ESR of 20 due to rail temperatures on the day. Drivers were advised by the signaller until ESR speed limit boards were placed.
The ATP transponders were not updated with the ESR as it was a short-term speed restriction and not cost/time effective to make the amendment.
No notice of the change was placed into the daily operating notice until ~1.5hrs after trains stopped being cautioned. A driver booked on between the ESR boards being placed and the notice being issued, so did not receive the notice.
On encountering the outer warning signs, the driver assumed that it was the long standing 30/125 limit board, assuming that the 125 board had become displaced.
On passing the ESR commencement board, the driver realised something was wrong, and reported a possible missing speed restriction board to the signaller.

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Last edited: 15/11/2020 at 23:14 by Edgemaster
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Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 16/11/2020 at 08:53 #133901
Late Turn
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Edgemaster, it wasn’t really a long-standing TSR, but rather an ESR that should’ve been converted to a TSR some time before this incident. The value of the emergency indicator (“Dalek”) is greatly reduced when you’ve been past it every day for several weeks and get used to acknowledging it, knowing that no action is necessary for a passenger train. If, however, the emergency indicator had been removed when it should’ve been, then its reappearance would almost certainly have drawn the driver’s appearance to the fact that something had changed.
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Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 16/11/2020 at 11:25 #133903
bugsy
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My understanding is that there are usually (but not always) different speed limits for freight and passenger trains.
After the Emergency Speed Indicator there is an advanced ‘warning board’ (screenshot) indicating the different speeds, followed by another similar board indicating the beginning of the speed restriction.
Would it not be the case that if the lower of the indicator boards (125mph) were replaced in each case with another advising drivers of the new speed for passenger trains rather than just removing them, the driver would have been given less ambiguous information and therefore taken the appropriate action?





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Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
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Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 16/11/2020 at 16:45 #133909
9pN1SEAp
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If done at short notice, perhaps even better to have another ESR in advance of the 20, with two sets of boards and ramps?
Jamie S (JAMS)
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Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 16/11/2020 at 18:05 #133912
jc92
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A single speed IS less ambiguous as it indicates it applies to all trains.

As Tom points out, if its been enough situ for sometime, the driver is expecting a AWS horn and to ignore it. He would've known about thecm change if the late notices case had been updated in time and been expecting the reduction, or if it had been converted to a TSR, then amended again to an ESR.

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Train speeding through Emergency Speed Restriction. 16/11/2020 at 19:15 #133918
bugsy
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jc92 in post 133912 said:
A single speed IS less ambiguous as it indicates it applies to all trains.

I stand corrected in that case. I suppose it was a very unfortunate set of circumstances. Let's hope that it doesn't happen again.

Your life can have a thousand different meanings or maybe just one....I'd recommend more than one in case you got it wrong - (Rezende)
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