Page 2 of 3
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 15/01/2010 at 19:11 #5900 | |
peterb
451 posts |
The NMT (1Qxx) is timed at HST7-125, even though I'm pretty sure there's only five coaches to it. The wiki table suggests it's limited to 110mph? Caledonian Sleepers vary in formation depending on location en route. I failed to find the documentated formations but i'm pretty sure that:- Highland Sleeper (south of Edinburgh) - Class 90 + 12xMkIII + 4xMkIII Fort William portion - Class 67 + 2xMkIII + 2xMkII Aberdeen portion - Class 67 + 4xMkIII + 2xMkII Inverness portion - Class 67 + 6xMkIII +2xMkII Lowland Sleeper (south of Carstairs) - Class 90 + 12xMkIII + 4xMkIII Edinburgh portion - Class 90 + 6xMkIII + 2xMkII Glasgow portion - Class 90 + 6xMkIII + 2xMkII *Some* ECS only - add an extra Class 90. Also, what would a timing load of 'UTU24R' or 'UTU3T' for a 4Qxx train imply? Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 15/01/2010 at 21:22 #5904 | |
Chrisrail
384 posts |
Peter wrote : 'UTU24R' or 'UTU3T' for a 4Qxx train imply? These are trains run by Serco and usually consist of either 2x37 Top n tail with I think 3 carriages. They can also be 2 x 31 TnT. AND they can be 1 loco 3 carriages and an ex Gatwick Express DVT 2 x 37 + carriages = 118m 2 x 31 + carriages = 115m That is what I use when doing Timetables. Hope that helps NMT is indeed 2+5 Chris Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 15/01/2010 at 21:30 #5905 | |
|
Chrisrail
384 posts |
Just had a look and it looks vert good. Could I suggest that we add lengths and maybe do a section on wagons. As I previously mentioned lengths of passenger trains is fairly standard and uniform. Freight is not but one can take an average on most workings. Enterprise / Network / MOD and trip workings are more like the National lottery
Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 15/01/2010 at 22:17 #5907 | |
moonraker
353 posts |
peterb said:The NMT (1Qxx) is timed at HST7-125, even though I'm pretty sure there's only five coaches to it. The wiki table suggests it's limited to 110mph?Some of the coaches maybe 2 I think are Mk II's which I think have a Max Speed of 110. Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 15/01/2010 at 22:39 #5908 | |
|
20001
10 posts |
Chrisrail said:Just had a look and it looks vert good. Could I suggest that we add lengths and maybe do a section on wagons. As I previously mentioned lengths of passenger trains is fairly standard and uniform. Freight is not but one can take an average on most workings. Enterprise / Network / MOD and trip workings are more like the National lotteryMost coal workings and liners are standard length, and MOD/Enterprise/Network workings can be up to personal interpretation. Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 15/01/2010 at 22:53 #5909 | |
|
JamesN
1580 posts 
|
lpeters - the HST7-125 is merely what it's timed as - all online references and photos of the Grand Central HSTs show them to be 2+6. peterb, moonraker - AFAIK the NMT is all MkIIIs now. It's limited to 110mph as anything faster upsets the sensitive onboard equipment. Will add the above later, bit wiki-ed out for today! Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 16/01/2010 at 08:52 #5914 | |
northroad
870 posts |
James, Don't know if this helps but I used to use the Highland quite frquently many years ago in the 90's and formations were slightly different then but perhaps your efforts should reflect all possibilities Euston - Edinbugh hauled by a Class 87 and consisted of an Aberdeen portion of 5 sleeping coaches, 1 lounge car and 1 brake Inverness portion of 5 sleeping coaches, 1 lounge car and 1 brake Fort William portion of 1 or 2 sleeping coaches only with the rest of the formation being added at Edinburgh. From Edinburgh it was the faithful 37 and 47's for destinations North. As is said in other response to your query the formation is dependant on the Platform length at Euston. Currently on the WTT the train has a timing load of 595 I do remember travelling on the first train to get through after the crash at Watford Junction. The train travelled up the electric lines from Euston to get to Watford avoiding the blockage hauled by Class 47525. It disgraced itself further up before Crewe with the exhaust getting into the Fort William sleeping coaches at the front and setting of the fire alarms. Suprisingly the 47 managed to drop just a few minutes on it's schedule before being replaced further up by the usual 87 but by that time I was fast asleep....snrrrrr. Keep up the good work. Geoff Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 16/01/2010 at 10:30 #5915 | |
|
Chrisrail
384 posts |
Quote"Most coal workings and liners are standard length, and MOD/Enterprise/Network workings can be up to personal interpretation." Coal workings (length) depends on the capacity at the the origin / destination and therefore are normally made up of 19 / 21 /25 Hoppers you can use 19m as the length of the hoppers + Loco. Liners again vary in length and you have to monitor and take an aevrage. I have seen them ranging from 144m - 536m Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 16/01/2010 at 14:17 #5921 | |
|
UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
If this helps, the ScotRail Sleeper currently uses the longest platform at Euston, it's something in the double figures I believe (possibly platform 14?). Even then it only just fits in, the loco (A class 90) at the front is literally hugging the signal. Also to note that after it departs there is the loco used for the ECS move into Euston (from Wembley?) and I believe that too was a Class 90 when I last saw it. This loco moved off shortly after the Sleeper, went into the tunnels then came back and went into the middle road siding between the platform used by the ScotRail and next platform along (one number higher, i.e: 15). Just bear in mind I'm not up to date on the platform numbers at Euston. Regarding Grand Central HSTs, I believe they started off in a 2+6 formation then reduced them to 2+5. However with Grand Central now owning at least two Class 180 'Adelantes' (180112 in it's new Grand Central livery and 180105 still in the old First Great Western/FirstGroup livery) I believe that they have now returned their HSTs back to at least 2+6, although this thread reminds me that I seem to recall seeing a Grand Central once somewhat recently (within last 6 months) in 2+7 formation. I hope this post will help someone. Cheers. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 16/01/2010 at 14:49 #5923 | |
|
moonraker
353 posts |
Weren't Class 92's being used for the Scottish Sleepers recently ? I must admit I don't really keep as much up to date as I should these days.
Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 16/01/2010 at 15:34 #5926 | |
|
northroad
870 posts |
James, Try this link for the current formations-----towards the bottom of the page http://www.seat61.com/CaledonianSleepers.htm Geoff Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 16/01/2010 at 16:33 #5927 | |
|
lpeters
160 posts |
Today I saw 2 GC trains; I saw 1 which was 4 car (i'm guessing thats a 180 (didn't see the end units very well)) and I saw 1 which was 2+5/2+6 (can't be certain). But with 18 coaches and whatever else it was i'm surprised they run them so short.
Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 16/01/2010 at 16:59 #5929 | |
|
UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
Interestingly enough there are actually three different ways to see Grand Central right now. HST (Old Grand Central livery): http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/eastcoast/eastcoast9.html Class 180 (New Grand Central livery): http://www.grandcentralrail.com/jamesherriot Class 180 (Original FirstGroup livery): http://www.grandcentralrail.com/class180 However you need to watch out with the Class 180s in FirstGroup livery as First Hull Trains currently have the same trains too. As I said above, if you're quick enough to see a coupler cover on one end of the train with the number "180 105" on it then it's Grand Central, otherwise it is First Hull Trains. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 16/01/2010 at 19:23 #5931 | |
|
peterb
451 posts |
UKTM - all sleepers are booked to use platform 15 at Euston, with the exception of 1M16 (platform 1)
Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 16/01/2010 at 19:53 #5932 | |
|
moonraker
353 posts |
Well here's a wiki about the Caledonian Sleepers. Looks like I've got some amending to do :: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Sleeper Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 22/01/2010 at 14:17 #6071 | |
|
bill_gensheet
1319 posts |
Any traction can appear on the ECS's at Euston and Glasgow. 66 and 92 are not unusual, on the ECS. The Edinburgh - Polmadie ECS is the train engine Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 22/01/2010 at 14:41 #6073 | |
Peter Bennet
5363 posts |
peterb said:UKTM - all sleepers are booked to use platform 15 at Euston, with the exception of 1M16 (platform 1)But there are only two sleeper trains arriving at Euston! Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 22/01/2010 at 15:28 #6075 | |
|
officer dibble
390 posts |
My understanding from observations and information passed on to me is that the Highland sleeper uses platform 1 & the Lowland sleeper uses platform 15.
Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 23/01/2010 at 10:40 #6096 | |
|
Peter Bennet
5363 posts |
Interesting add-on would be the range of a unit type on a full tank of diesel. Then TT writers would know whether a pit stop was required. Any ideas? Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 23/01/2010 at 12:08 #6103 | |
|
Sacro
1171 posts |
Well it tends to be built into the stock working so that it goes back to the TMD or wherever when it's getting low.
Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 23/01/2010 at 15:31 #6111 | |
DriverCurran
683 posts |
Which is all well and good when the service is running correctly, think this would be quite a good addition if it was workable. Paul You have to get a red before you can get any other colour Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 25/01/2010 at 13:46 #6160 | |
|
bill_gensheet
1319 posts |
I've had a look at a few diesel diagrams, and modern sprinter types are going for several days between fuelling visits while HST's manage to get to a fuel point every night I think so it may be worth considering how often this situation would arise and if it is on balance worthwhile over say another new sim area. However if fairly simple to do, perhaps as a 'miles to stop' or 'hours to exam' counter then it could be useful. I think implementing would need to be very carefully thought though as I don't think SimSig follows the necessary data around at present because SimSig is a fairly/very pure signalling sim not an operations sim like say SIAM. How to follow the rolling stock item around and cope with attaching and so on. What happens if the player does adjust diagrams and run to the limit ? How would the timetable driven SimSig cope with this ? Clearly the train should just stop, and then the player would need to write up a rescue timetable and so on or need the addition of some kind of 'rescue' function to the sim. Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 25/01/2010 at 14:05 #6163 | |
|
Chrisrail
384 posts |
SimSig is a signalling simulation. Signallers are not responsible for making sure that Loco's, Units etc are fuelled and are not going to break down. Whilst it is an interesting idea I can assure you that the amount of hours and hard work in developing a sim is considerable and that this would present itself as another chore and no doubt would extend the time that people are eagerly awaiting for new simulations
Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 25/01/2010 at 15:04 #6167 | |
|
Peter Bennet
5363 posts |
I think I may have been mis-understood- I was talking about the table that's been written on the WIKI where the range woudl be of assistance to timetable writers who did not necessarily have the real diagrams to hand. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Timetable Creation - Train Types (Train Characteristics) 25/01/2010 at 16:11 #6171 | |
|
JamesN
1580 posts
|
Mmm I'm not so sure as to it's usefulness. Please don't forget that the train data table was concieved as a quick-reference compendium to allow standard values to be used in Timetables - I orignally wrote it all down months ago when I got fed up of the wildly varying train lengths etc I was finding in user-contributed timetables. Since I had Jinxy first post up the original table it has been expanded to include current-day fixed formation LHCS and HSTs, and Heritage MUs - These additions are within the scope of the origninal table. What is now being proposed isn't, and aside from being considerably more difficult informaiton to source, is of very little use once it's known. A 'low' range figure (aka poor fuel economy such as pre-reengined HSTs) is still in 1000-1500 mile range, or put another way, KX - North Scotland and Return. Where in sims both released and in development are you going to get that kind of mileage? Even looking at the chaining potential of all sims listed on the bugboard you struggle to hit the bottom end of that figure. Please keep the ideas (and data!) coming, but please try and keep within the spirit of what the table is for. It's not meant to be an alternative for train service historys etc to wikipedia or similar sites, it's meant to be a quick-reference guide to aid timetable writers by giving the bare bones information that is needed for SimSig purposes (Length, Power, Acceleration and Max Speed) Log in to reply |