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Through line stop departure time.

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Through line stop departure time. 15/12/2021 at 14:25 #142918
bugsy
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According to the 'Timing Codes' in the Wiki, this states that a “train must hold here until this time, then can proceed.”
If that is the case, why does this timetable say: ”setdown (brief) Thruline” (My emphasis on the word brief)
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Through line stop departure time. 15/12/2021 at 14:35 #142919
9pN1SEAp
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Looks like it's both 13d30 and 13t30; but only one indicator can be displayed, with "thru line" taking precedence. It'll behave as per Misc tab.

The wiki could read "train must hold here, unless as defined as a set down stop (refer to Misc column in Timetable popup)".

Thanks
Jamie

Jamie S (JAMS)
Last edited: 15/12/2021 at 14:36 by 9pN1SEAp
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Through line stop departure time. 15/12/2021 at 14:48 #142920
postal
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There have recently been some core code changes which allow the TT writer to have more control over how long a train is actually stopped. However, the TT can only show a single character between the HH and MM at the timing point. It may be that there is more than one option selected relevant to that location and train but only the through-line stop shows as the single character. You can check this for yourself by going to the train's TT, and clicking on the Hatfield & Stainforth location. The through-line stop and set down only boxes should be checked but there is now also a box just above the through line stop headed "Set down" which contains various additional options.

I can't find any reference to the capability in the Wiki so I expect that people are just waiting to see if the options need any tweaking before it is written up.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 15/12/2021 at 14:50 by postal
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Through line stop departure time. 15/12/2021 at 15:10 #142921
headshot119
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The various set down options introduced recently are documented on this page https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack%3Attuse%3Aset_down

Where more than one character is needed between HH and MM only one is shown, generally it's the one more helpful to the Signaller then further information is shown in the misc column.

In this case knowing you have the option to use a none platform line than it being set down only.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
Last edited: 15/12/2021 at 15:12 by headshot119
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The following user said thank you: postal
Through line stop departure time. 15/12/2021 at 15:14 #142922
bugsy
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postal in post 142920 said:
There have recently been some core code changes which allow the TT writer to have more control over how long a train is actually stopped. However, the TT can only show a single character between the HH and MM at the timing point. It may be that there is more than one option selected relevant to that location and train but only the through-line stop shows as the single character. You can check this for yourself by going to the train's TT, and clicking on the Hatfield & Stainforth location. The through-line stop and set down only boxes should be checked but there is now also a box just above the through line stop headed "Set down" which contains various additional options.

I can't find any reference to the capability in the Wiki so I expect that people are just waiting to see if the options need any tweaking before it is written up.
Thanks for your comprehensive reply. I tend mostly to hold a train in this situation although I have been known to just send them on their way after checking that they won't cause too much of a problem.

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Through line stop departure time. 15/12/2021 at 15:32 #142923
postal
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headshot119 in post 142921 said:
The various set down options introduced recently are documented on this page https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack%3Attuse%3Aset_down

Where more than one character is needed between HH and MM only one is shown, generally it's the one more helpful to the Signaller then further information is shown in the misc column.

In this case knowing you have the option to use a none platform line than it being set down only.
Thanks, Karl. Obviously didn't use the right words in the search box when I was looking!

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Through line stop departure time. 15/12/2021 at 17:51 #142925
StepSig
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headshot119 in post 142921 said:
The various set down options introduced recently are documented on this page https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack%3Attuse%3Aset_down

Where more than one character is needed between HH and MM only one is shown, generally it's the one more helpful to the Signaller then further information is shown in the misc column.

In this case knowing you have the option to use a none platform line than it being set down only.

I notice on that page, three of the options are listed as inserting a 'd' in the time, could this be changed so the options use different letters?

Last edited: 15/12/2021 at 17:52 by StepSig
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Through line stop departure time. 16/12/2021 at 11:31 #142930
bugsy
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So, if the timing codes say that a train must be held until a certain time, must it be held if the SetDown time is brief, or is it acceptable to allow it to proceed?
Just need this to be clarified.

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
Last edited: 16/12/2021 at 11:31 by bugsy
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Through line stop departure time. 16/12/2021 at 12:33 #142932
Steamer
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bugsy in post 142930 said:
So, if the timing codes say that a train must be held until a certain time, must it be held if the SetDown time is brief, or is it acceptable to allow it to proceed?
Just need this to be clarified.
If it's phoning up asking to go, it can go.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Through line stop departure time. 16/12/2021 at 12:48 #142933
Dionysusnu
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The whole wording saying "must be held" seems confusing - isn't the setting merely to indicate a train can stop on a non-platform line? Nothing related to the departure time.
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Through line stop departure time. 16/12/2021 at 14:10 #142935
bill_gensheet
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Not really. These are ways of setting the driver/train behaviour.

Through-line means will not complain about not being platformed.
The rest are how long (if at all) to stop, will it stop on a green, and whether the driver/crew might ask to depart before time.

Bill

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Through line stop departure time. 16/12/2021 at 14:53 #142938
postal
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bugsy in post 142930 said:
So, if the timing codes say that a train must be held until a certain time, must it be held if the SetDown time is brief, or is it acceptable to allow it to proceed?
Just need this to be clarified.
It depends on the individual circumstances. For instance some mail/parcels services were always likely to be held till due departure time as the work plan in the sorting office or parcels concentration centre due to put work onto the train would have the indoor work plan aligned to a despatch time just in time to get the work onto the train. Similarly there might be a need to wait for work to be transferred from another train. The implication of that is that there should be a minimum dwell time to allow the work to be loaded. The final Royal Mail agreement with the railway post 1996 was that there was an agreed minimum dwell time which was contractually fixed at each stop and had to be allowed by the railway even if the train arrived late. In all other circumstances the train could depart early if both Royal Mail and the railway agreed (so for example if the sorting office had a good night and cleared early, the work could be on the train early and it could go).

It is nothing that the SimSig core code can clarify (and any Wiki clarification would have to resolve to "it depends").

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Through line stop departure time. 16/12/2021 at 14:57 #142939
bugsy
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Steamer in post 142932 said:
bugsy in post 142930 said:
So, if the timing codes say that a train must be held until a certain time, must it be held if the SetDown time is brief, or is it acceptable to allow it to proceed?
Just need this to be clarified.
If it's phoning up asking to go, it can go.
Thank you Steamer.
Invariably the driver phones and the train list says that the train is waiting for right-away but I have been replying that the driver must wait for the booked departure time.
I may now, in certain circumstances, allow a train to depart early.

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
Last edited: 16/12/2021 at 14:57 by bugsy
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Through line stop departure time. 16/12/2021 at 15:01 #142940
bugsy
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postal in post 142938 said:
bugsy in post 142930 said:
So, if the timing codes say that a train must be held until a certain time, must it be held if the SetDown time is brief, or is it acceptable to allow it to proceed?
Just need this to be clarified.
It depends on the individual circumstances. For instance some mail/parcels services were always likely to be held till due departure time as the work plan in the sorting office or parcels concentration centre due to put work onto the train would have the indoor work plan aligned to a despatch time just in time to get the work onto the train. Similarly there might be a need to wait for work to be transferred from another train. The implication of that is that there should be a minimum dwell time to allow the work to be loaded. The final Royal Mail agreement with the railway post 1996 was that there was an agreed minimum dwell time which was contractually fixed at each stop and had to be allowed by the railway even if the train arrived late. In all other circumstances the train could depart early if both Royal Mail and the railway agreed (so for example if the sorting office had a good night and cleared early, the work could be on the train early and it could go).

It is nothing that the SimSig core code can clarify (and any Wiki clarification would have to resolve to "it depends").
It is interesting to see how real life situations are taken into account. Thanks.

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
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Through line stop departure time. 16/12/2021 at 17:39 #142946
Steamer
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I've edited the page in question ( https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack%3Attuse%3Atiming_codes ) to hopefully reduce the amount of duplication on the page, make things clearer and bring it up to date.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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