Upcoming Games


Full list
Add a game

Upcoming Events

Who's Online

Dionysusnu, waucott, jem771, Phil-jmw, uboat, GeoffM, DriverCurran, kpl455 (8 users seen recently)

Trains at New Street not giving TRTS.

You are here: Home > Forum > Simulations > Released > Birmingham New Street > Trains at New Street not giving TRTS.

Page 1 of 2

Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 24/04/2022 at 16:35 #146261
marychristmaseverybody
Avatar
21 posts
Hello. I have recently noticed that when running Birmingham New Street that a lot of trains that come into the platforms in the early morning and divide, or even just single trains that take up the full platform, do not give TRTS. Any ideas?
Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: Guts
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 25/04/2022 at 11:09 #146266
Hap
Avatar
701 posts
In instances where this is happening, are you setting the route all the way to the end as shown in the provided image?
In this instance with NS170 already being off, the TRTS won't sound. Though, as described in the manual, the train won't move until it has a proceed from the exit signal from the platform.


Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
HAP
Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 25/04/2022 at 13:19 #146267
marychristmaseverybody
Avatar
21 posts
I am fully aware of this, but sometimes a train does not give TRTS when no signals are set at all! I will try and get a photo next time it happens.
Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 25/04/2022 at 13:29 #146268
postal
Avatar
4881 posts
marychristmaseverybody in post 146267 said:
I am fully aware of this, but sometimes a train does not give TRTS when no signals are set at all! I will try and get a photo next time it happens.
A saved game would be much better as it makes it easier to work out what is going wrong.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 25/04/2022 at 19:03 #146271
Guts
Avatar
460 posts
I've reported this before.

The first empties do not TRTS. You put them in the platforms and they just sit there. I had one 3hrs overdue.

They should.

Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 25/04/2022 at 19:58 #146272
headshot119
Avatar
4444 posts
Guts in post 146271 said:
I've reported this before.

The first empties do not TRTS. You put them in the platforms and they just sit there. I had one 3hrs overdue.

They should.
Do you have any additional or further information that might help us narrow down what the issue is, the timetable in use? Headcodes of the trains involved?

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 25/04/2022 at 20:13 #146273
Guts
Avatar
460 posts
Can I recommend trying it. It all happens at the start of the timetable.

It happened to me with the 2009 Groundhog Timetable.

I'll double check if I have a save.

Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
Last edited: 25/04/2022 at 20:14 by Guts
Reason: None given

Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 25/04/2022 at 20:15 #146274
headshot119
Avatar
4444 posts
Guts in post 146273 said:
Can I recommend trying it. It all happens at the start of the timetable
I would absolutely love to try it, but in order to do that and ensure the choir is all singing from the same hymn sheet I need to ascertain which timetable you're using, and preferably a train which you think is involved.

Edit the original posting above was made before Guts edited his post.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
Last edited: 25/04/2022 at 20:15 by headshot119
Reason: None given

Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 25/04/2022 at 20:24 #146275
headshot119
Avatar
4444 posts
Using the public release of the 2009 timetable (The save you've uploaded has no version number and appears to be an edited version of an older copy of the timetable as the description doesn't match the V5 public release) 2A36 terminated, formed 5A36 and belled out on the TRTS, running a second time if I gave it a preemptive yellow it didn't bell out but won't move per the dispatch procedure which is what I'd expect.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 25/04/2022 at 21:43 #146276
jc92
Avatar
3477 posts
There seems to be an outstanding issue here however. trains which are detained in such a way never call to complain about the situation. Assuming a driver is instructed not to accept a RA until he has a complete route out of the platform, would he not call after circa 2 minutes to enquire why he's being detained per section K?

While the signaller shouldn't make the error, its entirely possible to do so and the driver should probably jog his memory at some point.

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: Dionysusnu
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 25/04/2022 at 23:55 #146278
Dionysusnu
Avatar
485 posts
Online
jc92 in post 146276 said:
There seems to be an outstanding issue here however. trains which are detained in such a way never call to complain about the situation. Assuming a driver is instructed not to accept a RA until he has a complete route out of the platform, would he not call after circa 2 minutes to enquire why he's being detained per section K?

While the signaller shouldn't make the error, its entirely possible to do so and the driver should probably jog his memory at some point.
See also previous report of this: https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/53689?postId=143527

Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 29/04/2022 at 12:41 #146308
marychristmaseverybody
Avatar
21 posts
Right, just found a train that does not give TRTS in the 2015 default timetable, 5S29 or 5S69 (can’t remember which, it is an early morning pendolino ECS from Soho depot to P6 at New Street). The outbound passenger service (1S29/1S69) does not give TRTS if you route it into the platform how you would normally.
Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 29/04/2022 at 13:12 #146309
peterb
Avatar
448 posts
Potentially related bug attached -

5O12 in 11A did not TRTS (with the TRTS indicator) in the usual fashion despite its status. However it is calling me up claiming he is at NS148.

Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 29/04/2022 at 16:12 #146312
GeoffM
Avatar
5896 posts
Online
marychristmaseverybody in post 146308 said:
Right, just found a train that does not give TRTS in the 2015 default timetable, 5S29 or 5S69 (can’t remember which, it is an early morning pendolino ECS from Soho depot to P6 at New Street). The outbound passenger service (1S29/1S69) does not give TRTS if you route it into the platform how you would normally.
I'm not surprised they don't TRTS. None of them exist in that TT.

SimSig Boss
Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 29/04/2022 at 16:13 #146313
GeoffM
Avatar
5896 posts
Online
peterb in post 146309 said:
Potentially related bug attached -

5O12 in 11A did not TRTS (with the TRTS indicator) in the usual fashion despite its status. However it is calling me up claiming he is at NS148.
The platform starting signal is already off so TRTS won't operate.

SimSig Boss
Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 29/04/2022 at 17:31 #146314
marychristmaseverybody
Avatar
21 posts
GeoffM in post 146312 said:
marychristmaseverybody in post 146308 said:
Right, just found a train that does not give TRTS in the 2015 default timetable, 5S29 or 5S69 (can’t remember which, it is an early morning pendolino ECS from Soho depot to P6 at New Street). The outbound passenger service (1S29/1S69) does not give TRTS if you route it into the platform how you would normally.
I'm not surprised they don't TRTS. None of them exist in that TT.
Ah sorry mate it was 5S39 and 1S39 just looked it up properly.

Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 29/04/2022 at 18:43 #146315
GeoffM
Avatar
5896 posts
Online
marychristmaseverybody in post 146314 said:
GeoffM in post 146312 said:
marychristmaseverybody in post 146308 said:
Right, just found a train that does not give TRTS in the 2015 default timetable, 5S29 or 5S69 (can’t remember which, it is an early morning pendolino ECS from Soho depot to P6 at New Street). The outbound passenger service (1S29/1S69) does not give TRTS if you route it into the platform how you would normally.
I'm not surprised they don't TRTS. None of them exist in that TT.
Ah sorry mate it was 5S39 and 1S39 just looked it up properly.
Worked fine for me. If you left NS195 showing single yellow then the TRTS can't fire because the TRTS is shared between 195 and 225/226, and the interlocking cancels any TRTS with a signal off.


Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
SimSig Boss
Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 29/04/2022 at 20:17 #146316
peterb
Avatar
448 posts
GeoffM in post 146313 said:
peterb in post 146309 said:
Potentially related bug attached -

5O12 in 11A did not TRTS (with the TRTS indicator) in the usual fashion despite its status. However it is calling me up claiming he is at NS148.
The platform starting signal is already off so TRTS won't operate.
Sorry Geoff, the signal was pulled after it was apparent the train was RTS but TRTS on the platform had failed. Hope the attached snapshot from just prior is clearer.

Note also the train phones to report it's at 148.

Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
Last edited: 29/04/2022 at 20:19 by peterb
Reason: None given

Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: GeoffM
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 04/05/2022 at 13:38 #146367
Guts
Avatar
460 posts
headshot119 in post 146275 said:
Using the public release of the 2009 timetable (The save you've uploaded has no version number and appears to be an edited version of an older copy of the timetable as the description doesn't match the V5 public release) 2A36 terminated, formed 5A36 and belled out on the TRTS, running a second time if I gave it a preemptive yellow it didn't bell out but won't move per the dispatch procedure which is what I'd expect.
Sorry was this response to the save I posted??

Can I ask, when you say edited version, was 5A36 or 5G93 edited?? If I edit a train does it then affect TRTS for the empties??

I completely understand the process in terms of clearing the first signal but not the platform end signal will make the train wait for a further signal and not then TRTS, as a clear signal negates the TRTS.

Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 04/05/2022 at 16:19 #146370
Steamer
Avatar
3746 posts
Guts in post 146367 said:
headshot119 in post 146275 said:
Using the public release of the 2009 timetable (The save you've uploaded has no version number and appears to be an edited version of an older copy of the timetable as the description doesn't match the V5 public release) 2A36 terminated, formed 5A36 and belled out on the TRTS, running a second time if I gave it a preemptive yellow it didn't bell out but won't move per the dispatch procedure which is what I'd expect.
Sorry was this response to the save I posted??

Can I ask, when you say edited version, was 5A36 or 5G93 edited?? If I edit a train does it then affect TRTS for the empties??

I completely understand the process in terms of clearing the first signal but not the platform end signal will make the train wait for a further signal and not then TRTS, as a clear signal negates the TRTS.
I've just checked your save "220213-000537 sim time 044228 5a36 and 5g93.ssg", and in that game 5A36 is sat at a Y on NS168 towards NS167, hence no TRTS. Clear NS167 and 5A36 departs as expected.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 04/05/2022 at 16:20 by Steamer
Reason: None given

Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 09/05/2022 at 11:40 #146416
Guts
Avatar
460 posts
Steamer in post 146370 said:
Guts in post 146367 said:
headshot119 in post 146275 said:
Using the public release of the 2009 timetable (The save you've uploaded has no version number and appears to be an edited version of an older copy of the timetable as the description doesn't match the V5 public release) 2A36 terminated, formed 5A36 and belled out on the TRTS, running a second time if I gave it a preemptive yellow it didn't bell out but won't move per the dispatch procedure which is what I'd expect.
Sorry was this response to the save I posted??

Can I ask, when you say edited version, was 5A36 or 5G93 edited?? If I edit a train does it then affect TRTS for the empties??

I completely understand the process in terms of clearing the first signal but not the platform end signal will make the train wait for a further signal and not then TRTS, as a clear signal negates the TRTS.
I've just checked your save "220213-000537 sim time 044228 5a36 and 5g93.ssg", and in that game 5A36 is sat at a Y on NS168 towards NS167, hence no TRTS. Clear NS167 and 5A36 departs as expected.
Guys, please, I've been a signaller for 22yrs, I know how signalling works, so I also know how TRTS works. That's not even to say I know everything because I don't, but I know signalling.

The reason for the yellow was I had only just realised how overtime both trains were and I needed the platforms. I cleared the Y for 5A36 then realised I hadn't saved it. Before I cleared the Y it was not TRTS'ing.
None of this explains why 5G93 isn't TRTS'ing.

Now, I do not know the intricacies of SimSig data, and in this case I'd like to know why these trains are well past their departure times with no TRTS.

It's not a dig at anyone, it's a simple enquiry to find out what has changed thats now preventing the services from TRTS'ing. They used to before, why not now?
If you think of it in same breath, it's like Aston chaining issues (that have now been fixed), out of the blue it stopped chaining for no reason, but obviously something changed datawise. Happily it's been restored.

Last edited: 09/05/2022 at 11:43 by Guts
Reason: None given

Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 09/05/2022 at 18:32 #146420
headshot119
Avatar
4444 posts
Guts, it's difficult to answer the question as we're struggling to reproduce the issue when running a fresh game, I've tried the trains from the save you posted earlier in the thread a few times, and I can't reproduce the issue. If anyone is able to come up with a reproduceable case, and steps on how do to it, that would assist in helping us fix any issues that might be present.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 18/05/2022 at 08:03 #146524
Guts
Avatar
460 posts
headshot119 in post 146420 said:
Guts, it's difficult to answer the question as we're struggling to reproduce the issue when running a fresh game, I've tried the trains from the save you posted earlier in the thread a few times, and I can't reproduce the issue. If anyone is able to come up with a reproduceable case, and steps on how do to it, that would assist in helping us fix any issues that might be present.
Dude, I wouldn't worry about it. I just tried a new start up and it works. That all that matters. Thanks for looking into it.

Last edited: 18/05/2022 at 08:03 by Guts
Reason: None given

Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 04/06/2022 at 06:53 #146714
marychristmaseverybody
Avatar
21 posts
I have found an example. Here we have 2W00 failing to give TRTS at platform 5 of New Street. Could be to do with it stopping in the middle of the platform?
Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
Log in to reply
Trains at New Street not giving TRTS. 04/06/2022 at 07:38 #146715
marychristmaseverybody
Avatar
21 posts
And here, a few minutes after, we have 1O80 with the same situation.
Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
Log in to reply