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Doncaster Station SX 2009-10-15

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Donny Sth SX 2009-10-15 30/11/2023 at 13:25 #154543
geswedey
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I wondered that but I expect they are given these reporting numbers to show they are shunt moves albeit using the train engine rather than a yard pilot.

N.B this is the Donny South thread not Station could a moderator move it please.

Glyn

Glyn Calvert ACIRO
Last edited: 30/11/2023 at 13:30 by headshot119
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Donny Sth SX 2009-10-15 30/11/2023 at 13:30 #154544
Meld
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Giantray in post 154539 said:
Can someone explain to me why there are several what look like light engine moves out of Up Decoy Yard Railport, but are actually trains and some quite lengthy?

0S10 Cl66 + 255m
0S08 Cl66 + 255m
0S75 Cl66 + 312m
0S74 Cl66 + 312m
0S08 Cl66 + 42m crane
& 0D10 is the only one that is actually a light engine.
Its a workaround to avoid confusion, SBSI instructions for movements between the siding and Up Decoy Yard exit state the moves should be coded as 0D00, it was found during testing that using 0D00 caused confusion if more than one was in sim at the same time.

I didnt want to use 0Dxx for the shunts, as this could cause confusion for the sim with all the light engine moves in Down Decoy

Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!!
Last edited: 30/11/2023 at 13:31 by headshot119
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Doncaster Station SX 2009-10-15 30/11/2023 at 13:44 #154545
Meld
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The timetable notes section of the manual has been updated, to explain this
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Doncaster Station SX 2009-10-15 30/11/2023 at 15:20 #154546
0D07
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Aftenoon,

Regarding the Royal Mail moves your 2009 Timetable shows these running operated by GBRf. GBRf did bid and obtain those paths but never used them they do this quite often in the industry to prevent other operators from having them. The after 2004 the Royal Mail Terminals at Low Fell and Doncaster fell into disuse, the Willesden PRDC to Low Fell trains did not start running again till June 2010 after DB Schenker (Now DB Cargo) won the traffic back off the Royal Mail.
So 1M78 & 1E47 should really be removed from the Timetable as they did not run.

The shunt move from Belmont to the Railport 8D51 this was not intermodal wagons the traffic Automotives loaded IPA wagons.
4N69 & 4N72 From the Diagrams and Weekly plans that I have had the Crew Changes at Ferrybridge North Jn these was just pathing stops.

1 question if I may, There is no Up Decoy Pilot bringing traffic in and out of the Wood Yard into Up Decoy and vice verse. There is a pilot turn that is manned and always has been manned from 07:00hrs Sun to 20:00hrs Saturday for this purpose it was in years gone by an 08 but more recent times a restricted use Class 60s and 66s are the loco of choice on this and in reality T27 pilot would be shifting stuff all day in and out of these sidings for booked Trunk and Trip Infrastructure workings and Midweek Possession trains and moving repaired or Crippled wagons to and from C&W Siding to Belmont Yard. From a TT point of view it looks like all the paths are in the core TT Data just curious as non appear.

Thanks,
0D07

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Doncaster Station SX 2009-10-15 30/11/2023 at 16:04 #154549
Meld
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0D07 in post 154546 said:
Aftenoon,

Regarding the Royal Mail moves your 2009 Timetable shows these running operated by GBRf. GBRf did bid and obtain those paths but never used them they do this quite often in the industry to prevent other operators from having them. The after 2004 the Royal Mail Terminals at Low Fell and Doncaster fell into disuse, the Willesden PRDC to Low Fell trains did not start running again till June 2010 after DB Schenker (Now DB Cargo) won the traffic back off the Royal Mail.
So 1M78 & 1E47 should really be removed from the Timetable as they did not run.

The shunt move from Belmont to the Railport 8D51 this was not intermodal wagons the traffic Automotives loaded IPA wagons.
4N69 & 4N72 From the Diagrams and Weekly plans that I have had the Crew Changes at Ferrybridge North Jn these was just pathing stops.

1 question if I may, There is no Up Decoy Pilot bringing traffic in and out of the Wood Yard into Up Decoy and vice verse. There is a pilot turn that is manned and always has been manned from 07:00hrs Sun to 20:00hrs Saturday for this purpose it was in years gone by an 08 but more recent times a restricted use Class 60s and 66s are the loco of choice on this and in reality T27 pilot would be shifting stuff all day in and out of these sidings for booked Trunk and Trip Infrastructure workings and Midweek Possession trains and moving repaired or Crippled wagons to and from C&W Siding to Belmont Yard. From a TT point of view it looks like all the paths are in the core TT Data just curious as non appear.

Thanks,
0D07
Thanks for the comments, Royal Mail trains have always been a feature of the 2009 timetables hence why they have been left in.

An improved 8D51 will feature in a later update, needs tying up with 6X52 & 6M33, If you have any info about 8D55 that would be appreciated (by PM if you prefer). 4N69/72 the CIF shows no activities of any kind at Down Decoy so agreed they would be regulating stops.

Pilots are something that have been left for now until a plan can be worked out for their best implementation, again any info to help achieve this would be appreciated. Did T27 shunt both Wood Yard and what in sim is the Up Decoy Yard exit ?

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Doncaster Station SX 2009-10-15 01/12/2023 at 13:09 #154560
Giantray
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I Have 1D30 1110 KGX - Leeds at D191 booked to go via the down slow, but because of freight congestion I sent it via Dn Fast. However, it stopped and queried the route. Surely Dn Fast vice Dn Slow is an alternative and should not be queried? Is it a Timetable error or Simsig?
Retired Professional Railwayman (1981-2023); Pway & S&T (1981-88); Former Signalman/Signaller/ Signalling Trainer (1989-2023) [AB, TCB, Mechanical, NX, WestCad, Hitachi SARS]; Railway Historian (esp.SER, LCDR); Member of The Permanent Way Institution..
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Doncaster Station SX 2009-10-15 01/12/2023 at 13:49 #154561
Meld
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Giantray in post 154560 said:
I Have 1D30 1110 KGX - Leeds at D191 booked to go via the down slow, but because of freight congestion I sent it via Dn Fast. However, it stopped and queried the route. Surely Dn Fast vice Dn Slow is an alternative and should not be queried? Is it a Timetable error or Simsig?
Question raised, Mantis 39887 applies

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Doncaster Station SX 2009-10-15 05/12/2023 at 14:44 #154601
Giantray
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2R90 1816 Adwick - Scunthorpe, arrived platform 4 at Doncaster and stopped on the London end track circuit with the Country end track circuit showing clear. The trains reverses in platform 4. When TRTS was given, the route was set from D285 to D307. D285 signal would not change aspect. Is that because the Country end track circuit was not occupied?

However, looking at 'F2' the train started moving against a red, preceding in the down direction, when it occupied the Country end track, the signal came off. So the train has had Right Away from station staff with a red on D285, and the train moved with D285 at red.

Added save to post, but it is after the incident with 2R90 still in platform 4.

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Retired Professional Railwayman (1981-2023); Pway & S&T (1981-88); Former Signalman/Signaller/ Signalling Trainer (1989-2023) [AB, TCB, Mechanical, NX, WestCad, Hitachi SARS]; Railway Historian (esp.SER, LCDR); Member of The Permanent Way Institution..
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Doncaster Station SX 2009-10-15 05/12/2023 at 15:22 #154602
headshot119
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Where the only thing holding a signal at danger is approach control, the driver in SimSig will draw towards the signal to allow it to clear. It's been a core code feature for a long time now, but probably more noticeable here.

We did discuss at the time various ways of implementation, but what is done in this situation at Manchester Piccadilly varies from what happens at Chester, and that varies with say a junction signal on plain line etc. It was kept simple for sim purposes.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Doncaster Station SX 2009-10-15 05/12/2023 at 18:22 #154604
GeoffM
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I just checked the control tables and D285 to D307 requires track 5602 (only) occupied for approach control purposes. It's unusual because of this scenario - these days the controls would typically be berth track occupied OR <further away TC> occupied for time. Ideally 2R90 would have stopped at the north end (on that track) but there are certainly cases where, for whatever reason, it ends up at the south end.

We're getting an update ready and it won't make this update but I suspect we'll do one of the following:
- Make that specific train a near-end stop (not ideal for bays)
- Make that specific platform, and others like it, a near-end stop if trains reverse there
- Something else

As Karl says, it avoids the chicken and egg scenario where the driver won't move because the signal is at red, and the signal won't show proceed because the train is not close enough for approach control to kick in.

SimSig Boss
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