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Engineering Trains

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Engineering Trains 18/02/2024 at 15:15 #155402
HST125Scorton
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I thought to myself when we have engineering trains within timetables there generally routed to a key location or a set of stations/signals etc. So my idea would be, could there be a selection box/button which you could select which then tells the train to move and stop at a certain signal? At the moment you can only send a train to a station and dwell the train there if it isn't a key location example Walkden or Crow Nest Jn which means these have to be listed in the timetable.

So for example Crewe Basford Hall SSM to Salford Crescent which when the train terminates at Salford Crescent the train then moves onto to where it needs to be example Pendleton.

Examples:
Engineering Selection > Train ID > Stop at Signal to Berth.
Engineering Selection > 6Y50 > Signal MP563.

This means train 6Y50 once arrives at Salford Crescent can then go to MP563 to berth at the location of the works.

I would like to see what other people may think?

Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer
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Engineering Trains 18/02/2024 at 16:48 #155403
bill_gensheet
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Would certainly be of interest. I have however generally taken an alternative approach of setting engineering trains to move very slowly once at the worksite.
Something like 4mph and maybe a few location dwells thrown in along the way.

Bill

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Engineering Trains 18/02/2024 at 17:34 #155406
HST125Scorton
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bill_gensheet in post 155403 said:
Would certainly be of interest. I have however generally taken an alternative approach of setting engineering trains to move very slowly once at the worksite.
Something like 4mph and maybe a few location dwells thrown in along the way.

Bill
Indeed all 4 trains I have here move on from Salford towards Atherton at 5mph once arrived on it's timetable. I've had to use the dwell at stations as only Walkden/Crow Nest Jn are key locations for berthing trains. A whopping 30hour dwell..

Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer
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Engineering Trains 18/02/2024 at 17:37 #155407
GeoffM
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It's something I've considered in the past but couldn't decide on what to do if the train never actually passes that signal. If the signaller routes it on an adjacent line, what do you do? (Yes, I'm looking for ideas)
SimSig Boss
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Engineering Trains 18/02/2024 at 18:01 #155411
jc92
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something that was previously tried out (Sim itself didn't progress) was to add bespoke locations at certain signals in order to facilitate properly timetabled possessions.

I'm not suggesting every signal should be a timetabled location of course, but if a handful are added between key locations, it would facilitate stopping trains in the middle of nowhere. you could fit multiple trains in using FX and NX stopping positions with + and - values to move the train considerable distance from the location too.

The outstanding issue is what do with trains that enter or exit said possession via an unsignalled or wrong direction movement.

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Engineering Trains 18/02/2024 at 18:46 #155412
58050
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jc92 in post 155411 said:
something that was previously tried out (Sim itself didn't progress) was to add bespoke locations at certain signals in order to facilitate properly timetabled possessions.

I'm not suggesting every signal should be a timetabled location of course, but if a handful are added between key locations, it would facilitate stopping trains in the middle of nowhere. you could fit multiple trains in using FX and NX stopping positions with + and - values to move the train considerable distance from the location too.

The outstanding issue is what do with trains that enter or exit said possession via an unsignalled or wrong direction movement.

What Joe has suggested would make a difference to me with regards to my Crewe summer 1988 TT. During that period there was alot of testing going on from Derby RTC with Test Car No.2 & a bogie wagons with a Low Track Force(LTF) wagon doing Slip/brake tests up to 75mph on the Down Slow between Crewe & Winsford. Now having a set of 'bespoke' signal number on that stretch of line would make the timetabling of these test alot easier to do & would when running the sim probably look more prototypical too as opposed to closing the Down Slow between Crewe & Winsford for the duration of the testing.

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Engineering Trains 19/02/2024 at 13:27 #155419
broodje
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GeoffM in post 155407 said:
It's something I've considered in the past but couldn't decide on what to do if the train never actually passes that signal. If the signaller routes it on an adjacent line, what do you do? (Yes, I'm looking for ideas)
Would it be possible to ad engineering possessions into the timetable? You would get the new train window, but with a checkbox you can denote 'is possession' or something like that. (the same that happens when you seed trains) If checked, you can still ad timetable locations as with any other train, except now you can select either track sections and/or signals. You still set a timetabled time and the set time denotes the duration of the possession of the signal or track. You can even use the normal delayed trains rules to ad some extra fun. In fact, come to think of it, you would even be able to use the rules and decisions.

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Engineering Trains 19/02/2024 at 14:11 #155420
bill_gensheet
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GeoffM in post 155407 said:
It's something I've considered in the past but couldn't decide on what to do if the train never actually passes that signal. If the signaller routes it on an adjacent line, what do you do? (Yes, I'm looking for ideas)
Would a special location called 'Engineering stop' work ?

It would be defined in time & distance between key locations (and/or stations).

A TOWN 02/17
ENG-STOP 2300m 4h00
B West Junction 07:00 07:02

That would stop the train for 4 hours at 2300m after passing A TOWN station location. If sent off route it would just carry on regardless.

There could be other applications such as train faults.

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Engineering Trains 19/02/2024 at 14:46 #155421
0D07
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I think this is a good Idea to be fair and would enhance things a fair bit. Regarding the what happens if the signalman wrong routes the train so on and so on. In real life the driver will work to the instructions that are issued on the "Ballast Circular" or if your in Scotland the "Synopsis". This does clearly state what signal the train is come to a stand at the driver is also given a Worksite Information Brief when he is to work on T3 or take the train to a possession. So as in real life I would expect the driver to challenge the route if he was to be put on the wrong road.
The one thing that I would expect might be beyond Simsig at the moment is the setting up and giving a engineering worksite, as you are probably aware the Civil Engineer can set a possession up with blocking points then allow a train into the site or he can set up a possession around a train stood at a signal and the same when giving it up, I only mention if people are doing to expect PICOPs and Engineering Supervisors to start ringing in!

Delta Zero Severn

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Engineering Trains 19/02/2024 at 17:19 #155422
bill_gensheet
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0D07 in post 155421 said:

The one thing that I would expect might be beyond Simsig at the moment is the setting up and giving a engineering worksite, as you are probably aware the Civil Engineer can set a possession up with blocking points then allow a train into the site or he can set up a possession around a train stood at a signal and the same when giving it up, I only mention if people are doing to expect PICOPs and Engineering Supervisors to start ringing in!

Delta Zero Severn
I have bodged a variant of that, by misusing decisions functions to create sim messages.
So Cowlairs 2016 has a 'call' to allow a train into the worksite. I don't think the one where the 'new PICOP' calls up to check the blockage (ie reminder for the player to set up the block for that timetable) made the released version.

Somewhere in Mantis I have/had a request for a train activity of 'Make a phone call' with a free text input which would make that all easier.

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Engineering Trains 19/02/2024 at 18:36 #155423
Stephen Fulcher
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In reality they are timed to the next relevant TIPLOC with a note in the WON that a possession is to be taken around train x at signal y.

They often show a significant delay in TRUST even though they are not in reality delayed as a result of this.

Many new schemes have a TIPLOC for almost every signal which does alleviate this issue somewhat.

Perhaps @GeoffM the solution if the train fails to pass the relevant signal as you describe above it could just step the timetable automatically when it passes the next timing point? Not sure what would be practical for wrong route coding though as it would be a bit extreme to have to code every signal manually.

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Engineering Trains 21/02/2024 at 06:52 #155428
Giantray
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I used to train Signallers on WestCad using a simulator. Even on the real life simulators, a lot of things being asked for in the various threads for Simsig are non-existant.I used to have to make up scenarios and become the Driver, S&T, PICOP etc in comms. It certainly wasn't all singing all dancing simulator of the real life work stations. How far do does Simsig go? As a trainer, to stop a train anywhere for possesions, failures, incidents etc was done by stopping it through the trainers interface.

Through 'F2' Train List on Simsig we can do all sorts of things with a train, change its timetable, reverse it, shunt forward, pass Signals at Danger,even remove it. Everything other than stop it. Would having the ability to stop a train via "F2" Train List, anywhere help? It certainly would allow users to create failed trains, hold engineers trains anywhere. By stopping a train, it also stops it ringing in as waiting signal. It would be great for when hosting multiplayer games being able to "fail" a train. Obviously some indication in "F2" Train List that a train has been stopped by the users would need to be indicated.

Retired Professional Railwayman (1981-2023); Pway & S&T (1981-88); Former Signalman/Signaller/ Signalling Trainer (1989-2023) [AB, TCB, Mechanical, NX, WestCad, Hitachi SARS]; Railway Historian (esp.SER, LCDR); Member of The Permanent Way Institution..
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Engineering Trains 21/02/2024 at 07:12 #155429
Stephen Fulcher
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Giantray in post 155428 said:
I used to train Signallers on WestCad using a simulator. Even on the real life simulators, a lot of things being asked for in the various threads for Simsig are non-existant.I used to have to make up scenarios and become the Driver, S&T, PICOP etc in comms. It certainly wasn't all singing all dancing simulator of the real life work stations. How far do does Simsig go? As a trainer, to stop a train anywhere for possesions, failures, incidents etc was done by stopping it through the trainers interface.

Through 'F2' Train List on Simsig we can do all sorts of things with a train, change its timetable, reverse it, shunt forward, pass Signals at Danger,even remove it. Everything other than stop it. Would having the ability to stop a train via "F2" Train List, anywhere help? It certainly would allow users to create failed trains, hold engineers trains anywhere. By stopping a train, it also stops it ringing in as waiting signal. It would be great for when hosting multiplayer games being able to "fail" a train. Obviously some indication in "F2" Train List that a train has been stopped by the users would need to be indicated.
Mantis 40336 as a suggestion for stopping individual trains.

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