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| Plean Junction 18/03/2010 at 15:37 #886 | |
Late Turn
696 posts |
The manual contains the following: Quote: Note: Signal PJ18 has a 30 second approach lock if the section between PJ 19 and LN46 is not clear. It is understood that the reason behind this is to approach control trains bound for Caberboard and a line clear from Larbert North was not required.I don't know the location, and I can't find any photos of the box interior to prove or disprove my thoughts, but it sounds, to me, very much like a means of 'enforcing' the old Rule 39a, or TS1 4.6 in the current Rule Book: Quote: "4.6 Clearing a stop signal when the nextAt most mechanically signalled locations I've come across, this is applied through the regulations only (by the Signalman checking the approaching train at each signal in turn, if he's not in a position to clear the section signal). I know that locking was provided at some locations though - Stow Park is one that comes to mind, where the home signal in each direction required either a line clear from the box in advance or berth track occupied. The home signal lever in each direction carried a white horizontal stripe as a result, as with the section signal in each direction. That sounds very much like what's being simulated here, though I'd welcome confirmation or otherwise from someone who knows the location, and hope that it clears up the apparent uncertainty in the wording in the manual! Incidentally, given that the aim here is clearly to simulate the operation of the mechanical signalling rather than 'converting' it to M.A.S. as other sims have done, are there any plans (assuming that it's not included currently!) to penalise for not applying that rule, even where the interlocking doesn't force it to be applied? Finally...congratulations on an enjoyable (so far!) set of sims - the area covered by the set of three really is impressive! Tom Log in to reply |
| Plean Junction 18/03/2010 at 15:37 #7372 | |
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Late Turn
696 posts |
The manual contains the following: Quote: Note: Signal PJ18 has a 30 second approach lock if the section between PJ 19 and LN46 is not clear. It is understood that the reason behind this is to approach control trains bound for Caberboard and a line clear from Larbert North was not required.I don't know the location, and I can't find any photos of the box interior to prove or disprove my thoughts, but it sounds, to me, very much like a means of 'enforcing' the old Rule 39a, or TS1 4.6 in the current Rule Book: Quote: "4.6 Clearing a stop signal when the nextAt most mechanically signalled locations I've come across, this is applied through the regulations only (by the Signalman checking the approaching train at each signal in turn, if he's not in a position to clear the section signal). I know that locking was provided at some locations though - Stow Park is one that comes to mind, where the home signal in each direction required either a line clear from the box in advance or berth track occupied. The home signal lever in each direction carried a white horizontal stripe as a result, as with the section signal in each direction. That sounds very much like what's being simulated here, though I'd welcome confirmation or otherwise from someone who knows the location, and hope that it clears up the apparent uncertainty in the wording in the manual! Incidentally, given that the aim here is clearly to simulate the operation of the mechanical signalling rather than 'converting' it to M.A.S. as other sims have done, are there any plans (assuming that it's not included currently!) to penalise for not applying that rule, even where the interlocking doesn't force it to be applied? Finally...congratulations on an enjoyable (so far!) set of sims - the area covered by the set of three really is impressive! Tom Log in to reply |
| Plean Junction 18/03/2010 at 15:56 #7378 | |
Peter Bennet
5357 posts |
According to the signal box drawings there is a timer dependant on the signalling sequences. Bill made enquiries of ‘locals’ on Scot-rail forum and the explanation given in the manual is the most plausible; I think it came from an ex-signaller for the box. One of the splash screens has a photo of the offending signal in context. I can sit down and think though the coding required to make a penalty but if it’s more than a couple of lines there are a heck of a lot of signals to deal with!! Thanks. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Plean Junction 18/03/2010 at 21:04 #7395 | |
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Late Turn
696 posts |
I'm not convinced  . There's no difference, as far as "approach control" (whether applied through TS1 4.6 or by the locking) is concerned, between a train signalled towards the section signal to set back into (in this case) Capenboard, and a train signalled towards the section signal to await acceptance forward. Both require checking at the home signal, and neither will have a 'line clear' at this point (the former doesn't require one, as the manual says, whereas the latter can't have one for the time being!). The manual covers the actual operation of the signal accurately anyway - I was just trying to help expand the reasoning behind it.Forgive me for raising a second concern, but it's quite worrying to be able to 'lose' a train in an Absolute Block section. In reality, there'd be some indication of its presence by means of the block indicator - I appreciate that fully functional block indicators would be quite a challenge without simulating AB in great detail, but some sort of 'train on line' indication would make it seem more like the real thing. I don't want to appear overly critical - that's not my intention by any means! Simsig's always got it spot on as far as accuracy on TCB lines goes - Absolute Block's what I'm used to though, which is probably why these seemingly trivial issues stand out! Tom Log in to reply |
| Plean Junction 18/03/2010 at 21:22 #7398 | |
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Peter Bennet
5357 posts |
As the box has been demolished now I guess we may never know the reason. As regards the AB- several ideas were considered including TOL and 'slots'; it is possible to do things differently but I also had to consider the shear size of the sim in terms of operation- and various other limitations I had to work with. As regards the train visibility I considered the TD would suffice- but there is a 'TC visibility' option. Thanks Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |