1991 timetable

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1991 timetable 05/05/2019 at 13:34 #118098
lazzer
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58050 said:
Thanks for the this Neil. Firstly looking at the MGR coal plan I can confirm that 6k91 0951 TWThO MGR Eggborough Power Station - Sudforth Lane is the last workings of that set & shows arriving at Sudforth Lane at 1002, it shows 'DETACH ETIES, LD' & the loco returns to Knottingley TMD. What I am tempyed to say & it's no disrespect to you as I know you are a railwayman, but I don't recall ever having this problem when Kev & I tested the timetable & to back that up some of the users on this thread have also confirmed they have run through the full 24 hours & have not mentioned the fact that they have run out of room at Sudforth Lane. So I'm wondering whether you ended up placing a set in Sudforth Lane that shouldn't be there?
No offence taken :)

I may be a real-life train driver, but that doesn't stop me being a rubbish pretend signaller! But as you asked, the two other empty sets sitting in Sudforth Sidings are:

6K94FSX1738, arrived 17:55 as booked (17:35 Selby Discharge to Sudforth. Joins 0K86 to form 6K86FSX2155 - 21:55 Sudforth to York Yard North)
6K83FSX1855, arrived 19:15 as booked (18:55 Selby Discharge to Sudforth. Joins 0K82 to form 6K822209 - 22:09 Sudforth to Selby New Mine)

So both other sets of empties should be sitting there at 19:43 (my current sim time) - it's 6K91MFX0951 that's messed things up. If it should indeed arrive at around 10:00 and just sit there for the rest of the day then this is one of those "too much coal and not enough sidings" situations that we're going to have to manage at 19:45.

As a short-term solution I'm going to create a new 56 to come light loco out of Knottingley to take it up to Milford just to get it out of the way. I've got three through sidings and four dead ends available. Then I won't have to sit 6K861941 at Knottingley South until 6K86FSX2155 departs at 21:55.

58050 said:
If however you are 100% certain that everything went where it should I'm going to be running a Wednesday test session starting fromn 04.00am snapshot another user has post so I can work out where to put a missing train that someone pointed out.
Once I've finished this TT I was thinking of running Wednesday again to see if I can spot anything myself.

Last edited: 05/05/2019 at 13:41 by lazzer
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1991 timetable 05/05/2019 at 14:57 #118099
bossman
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I'm just wondering if anybody knows what the return working of 7H06 is from Drax as I can't see a 6H06 or anything similar. Sorry if it's already been asked. I'm running the Tuesday TT.

Cheers

cliff cook
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1991 timetable 05/05/2019 at 15:28 #118100
58050
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bossman in post 118099 said:
I'm just wondering if anybody knows what the return working of 7H06 is from Drax as I can't see a 6H06 or anything similar. Sorry if it's already been asked. I'm running the Tuesday TT.

Cheers
I'm just about to start a Wednesday run through now. With regards to the irst missing train 6K83 which should enter from Drax Power Station at 03.37 now runs into the Milford Down Sdgs as that train as no further work & the loco comes out from there back to Knottingley TMD at 04.37. That means the trains going in & out of Milford WS don't need to be re-written. With regards to your 7H06 train going in you need to bear in mind MGR set don't always return from wence they came. That set could return to any number of places like Gascoigne Wood, Milford WS, York Yard North or even Doncaster Down Decoy. If you look in the F4 you 'll see a train 6Y63 14.17 MX MGR Gascoigne Wood - Immingham Coal Terminal. That could be the empty set going to Immingham to load & return as 7H06. MGR sets work totally different to other traffic flows which use tank wagons or Aggregate hoppers. MGR sets are not tied to one train as they can literally be sent anywhere(Colliery or Port) to load & return to the Power Station, so don't cos 7H06 from Immingham has gone in another empty set will come for Immingham. Doesn't always work that way. The empties off 7H06 would go back to Gascoigne Wood to load or Milford WS/Sudforth Lane to wait for there next orders. But thanks for asking.

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1991 timetable 05/05/2019 at 15:46 #118104
jc92
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58050 in post 117624 said:
Muzer in post 117622 said:
Is it expected that 6K91 terminates with no engine at Sudforth Lane sidings? It's a Tuesday.

Looking at the MGR coal plan 6K910442 TO MGR Ferrybridge- - Sudforth Lane arr.04.54 shows detach empties & LD to Knottingley TMD. The loco departs Sudforth Lane at 05.10 & arrives at Knottingley TMD at 05.14.
Another loco comes off Knottingley TMD as 0K91 05.56 TWThO to Sudforth Lane & attaches to either that set of empties or another set there to form 6K91 06.26 MGR Sudforth Lane - York Yard North. I'd be very surprised if Kev & I missed something as we both extensively tested this timetable throughout each day of the week well before the advent of the alpha & beta tester teams. What you need to realise with MGR workings is that any set at either Sudforth Lane or Milford WS could be used for any MGR working as they are all 36 MGR wagon sets apart from the circuits working to Welbeck Disposal which are restricted to 32 MGR wagon sets due to coal slag weighing heavier than the coal sent to the power stations. So when allocating a set to its next working it doesn't necessarily follow that the specific set you are quierying has a next working.
is it possible to shunt it into the recessing siding and berth it there? plenty of room assuming nothing else is booked out that day?

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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1991 timetable 05/05/2019 at 18:23 #118108
dmaze
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I see 0K80MSX (0403 MSX LD Knottingley TMD - Milford Sidings 2-4) booked to reverse at Milford (sig. M5248); this should probably be M5252 (M5248 is past the loop on the down Normanton line towards York). (TT version 1.3.0, Today is FRIDAY.)

This is the first train of the day to go to Milford Down Sidings and I misread the TT.

I will say I'm enjoying this a great deal and I appreciate the effort and detail that's gone into producing this!

Last edited: 05/05/2019 at 18:28 by dmaze
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1991 timetable 05/05/2019 at 19:07 #118111
lazzer
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Just found two small bugs in the TT.

The first is 4M77 - 1400 SX COY Bathgate TC - Washwood Heath Up Sdgs (FDAA TI Cl.47/3+16 empty PLA 2 tier cartics). It enters the sim with headcode "2036", which I assume found its way into that box because the train's entry time was mistakenly put there instead.

Secondly, when in the F4 -> Train Characteristics -> Train Category drop-down list, one of the entries reads "Cl.56+36 empty MGR wagns" (a small typo).

Last edited: 05/05/2019 at 19:08 by lazzer
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1991 timetable 05/05/2019 at 21:00 #118116
58050
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lazzer in post 118111 said:
Just found two small bugs in the TT.

The first is 4M77 - 1400 SX COY Bathgate TC - Washwood Heath Up Sdgs (FDAA TI Cl.47/3+16 empty PLA 2 tier cartics). It enters the sim with headcode "2036", which I assume found its way into that box because the train's entry time was mistakenly put there instead.

Secondly, when in the F4 -> Train Characteristics -> Train Category drop-down list, one of the entries reads "Cl.56+36 empty MGR wagns" (a small typo).
Thanks for that Neil they have both been corrected.

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1991 timetable 06/05/2019 at 13:33 #118123
58050
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I've sent the updated TT version of to Noel so it can be sent out with the sim updates at some point in the not too distant future. I've also made a couple of routing alterations to 6K78 0918 SX MGR Milford WS - Allerton Bywater(aka Leadston) & 6K91 1445 SX MGR Milford WS - Allerton Bywater. Both of these trains run direct from Milfor Jn to Castleford & reverse at CD5211 signal & propel down the Leadstone branch with the brake van leading as there are no run round facilities at the colliery. So when the new TT is released user will need to remember this.
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1991 timetable 15/10/2019 at 20:58 #121065
Ford
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Phil-jmw in post 118071 said:
2G60 0830 Doncaster - Holbeck Track Recording Unit, when returning from Monk Bretton towards Crofton East Spur, calls up from WK6823 Sig Oakenshaw South Jn and queries the route to Crofton East.
Anyone know if there's a way around this bug? I've been playing this brilliant sim for weeks now and have managed to get this far without any errors (other than timing) - I'd like to carry on without being told I've set the wrong route. Is there a way up that side spur?

Thanks

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1991 timetable 15/10/2019 at 23:06 #121069
Edgemaster
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Ford in post 121065 said:
Phil-jmw in post 118071 said:
2G60 0830 Doncaster - Holbeck Track Recording Unit, when returning from Monk Bretton towards Crofton East Spur, calls up from WK6823 Sig Oakenshaw South Jn and queries the route to Crofton East.
Anyone know if there's a way around this bug? I've been playing this brilliant sim for weeks now and have managed to get this far without any errors (other than timing) - I'd like to carry on without being told I've set the wrong route. Is there a way up that side spur?

Thanks
I can't reproduce this in build 2.3 of the sim. I believe this bug was fixed with this release. Could you please check you are running the latest version?

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1991 timetable 18/11/2019 at 20:46 #121778
Jan
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lazzer in post 118098 said:
But as you asked, the two other empty sets sitting in Sudforth Sidings are:

6K94FSX1738, arrived 17:55 as booked (17:35 Selby Discharge to Sudforth. Joins 0K86 to form 6K86FSX2155 - 21:55 Sudforth to York Yard North)
6K83FSX1855, arrived 19:15 as booked (18:55 Selby Discharge to Sudforth. Joins 0K82 to form 6K822209 - 22:09 Sudforth to Selby New Mine)

So both other sets of empties should be sitting there at 19:43 (my current sim time) - it's 6K91MFX0951 that's messed things up. If it should indeed arrive at around 10:00 and just sit there for the rest of the day then this is one of those "too much coal and not enough sidings" situations that we're going to have to manage at 19:45.

I'm running the timetable on a Tuesday and have run into the very same problem re 6K86.

Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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1991 timetable 19/11/2019 at 18:41 #121802
lazzer
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Jan in post 121778 said:
lazzer in post 118098 said:
But as you asked, the two other empty sets sitting in Sudforth Sidings are:

6K94FSX1738, arrived 17:55 as booked (17:35 Selby Discharge to Sudforth. Joins 0K86 to form 6K86FSX2155 - 21:55 Sudforth to York Yard North)
6K83FSX1855, arrived 19:15 as booked (18:55 Selby Discharge to Sudforth. Joins 0K82 to form 6K822209 - 22:09 Sudforth to Selby New Mine)

So both other sets of empties should be sitting there at 19:43 (my current sim time) - it's 6K91MFX0951 that's messed things up. If it should indeed arrive at around 10:00 and just sit there for the rest of the day then this is one of those "too much coal and not enough sidings" situations that we're going to have to manage at 19:45.

I'm running the timetable on a Tuesday and have run into the very same problem re 6K86.
I think creating a new class 56 to come out of Knottingley and run the empties up to Milford is the best solution here. Otherwise you just end up with a blockage at Sudforth.

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1991 timetable 19/11/2019 at 19:27 #121804
Soton_Speed
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lazzer in post 121802 said:
I think creating a new class 56 to come out of Knottingley and run the empties up to Milford is the best solution here. Otherwise you just end up with a blockage at Sudforth.
Having looked at the Arr/Dep for Sudforth Lane, 6K95 1414 SX MGR Sudforth Lane - Selby New Mine could be a candidate for 6K91MFX0951's next working; as at the moment it is only referenced by trains that run on Monday (6K86SUDFTHLNUP) and Friday (6K95FO0306), yet 6K95 is listed as running SX.

In fact 0K951335FX is scheduled to join with 6K951414 but in Sudforth Lane Up Sdg for the Monday version of 6K95.

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1991 timetable 22/11/2019 at 11:34 #121838
lazzer
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Just a quick note about 6N20 which enters at Wakefield Cobra at 10.03, with the loco running round at Calder Bridge Junction.

Make sure you route the train out of Wakefield Cobra onto the UP line (so WK1193 -> WK1195 -> WK8211, and NOT WK1195 -> WK6775). If you route the train to WK6775 the driver will simply call in to say he's waiting there. The loco will not detach unless the train is at WK8211 signal. Technically, the loco can still run round if it's stopped on the Down line, but the sim doesn't recognise that the train has arrived at Calder Bridge Junction if it's on the Down line.

Hope that helps anyone else who's confused as to which route to give the train out of Wakefield Cobra.

EDIT - when you have the loco 0N20 in behind WK8210 you have to route it through the UGL to run it round the train. So the route is WK8210 -> WK1194 -> WK1232. There is no route from WK8210 to WK1190.

Last edited: 22/11/2019 at 12:10 by lazzer
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1991 timetable 22/11/2019 at 14:14 #121841
vloris
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Actually there are two places you can put 6N20 so the run-round can be done: on the up line (behind WK8211), or in the loop (behind WK8823).
I was playing this timetable yesterday, and I sent 6N20 into the loop (so WK1193 > WK1195 > WK8823) which worked fine.

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1991 timetable 22/11/2019 at 18:27 #121846
lazzer
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vloris in post 121841 said:
Actually there are two places you can put 6N20 so the run-round can be done: on the up line (behind WK8211), or in the loop (behind WK8823).
I was playing this timetable yesterday, and I sent 6N20 into the loop (so WK1193 > WK1195 > WK8823) which worked fine.
I'll remember that if I ever have to do it with trains wanting to get through on the up line.

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1991 timetable 22/11/2019 at 18:32 #121847
KymriskaDraken
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Soton_Speed in post 121804 said:
lazzer in post 121802 said:
I think creating a new class 56 to come out of Knottingley and run the empties up to Milford is the best solution here. Otherwise you just end up with a blockage at Sudforth.
Having looked at the Arr/Dep for Sudforth Lane, 6K95 1414 SX MGR Sudforth Lane - Selby New Mine could be a candidate for 6K91MFX0951's next working; as at the moment it is only referenced by trains that run on Monday (6K86SUDFTHLNUP) and Friday (6K95FO0306), yet 6K95 is listed as running SX.

In fact 0K951335FX is scheduled to join with 6K951414 but in Sudforth Lane Up Sdg for the Monday version of 6K95.
Can you send me a PM with the required corrections (including your suggested solutions) and I will update the tt.

Kev

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1991 timetable 04/12/2019 at 15:42 #122063
swiftaw
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Whats the correct way to run around at Sudford Lane? When I tried, the loco kept going all the way to Knottingley station.
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1991 timetable 04/12/2019 at 16:58 #122065
jc92
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swiftaw in post 122063 said:
Whats the correct way to run around at Sudford Lane? When I tried, the loco kept going all the way to Knottingley station.
Any more info on what you did so we can tell if it should work or not?

If it's a straight forward run round I normally use the headshunts at either end of the reception lines but you should be able to reverse on the mainline too.

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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1991 timetable 04/12/2019 at 18:51 #122068
swiftaw
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jc92 in post 122065 said:
swiftaw in post 122063 said:
Whats the correct way to run around at Sudford Lane? When I tried, the loco kept going all the way to Knottingley station.
Any more info on what you did so we can tell if it should work or not?

If it's a straight forward run round I normally use the headshunts at either end of the reception lines but you should be able to reverse on the mainline too.
Have Down trains in sidings 1 and 2, loco in 1 needs to run around so train can head in the up direction. I sent the loco to stop at FE6473, which it did. So then I reversed in through FE6470 with the idea that it would stop once it passed FE6459 which i could use to get it back in the sidings. However it kept going through FE6450 towards Knottingley.

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1991 timetable 04/12/2019 at 20:32 #122074
jc92
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swiftaw in post 122068 said:
jc92 in post 122065 said:
swiftaw in post 122063 said:
Whats the correct way to run around at Sudford Lane? When I tried, the loco kept going all the way to Knottingley station.
Any more info on what you did so we can tell if it should work or not?

If it's a straight forward run round I normally use the headshunts at either end of the reception lines but you should be able to reverse on the mainline too.
Have Down trains in sidings 1 and 2, loco in 1 needs to run around so train can head in the up direction. I sent the loco to stop at FE6473, which it did. So then I reversed in through FE6470 with the idea that it would stop once it passed FE6459 which i could use to get it back in the sidings. However it kept going through FE6450 towards Knottingley.
I cant reproduce this with a test timetable. at the risk of patronising you, is it definitely a run round? most locos go to/come from Knottingley TMD unless the train is to/from Kellingley. whats the headcode and UID of the train and/or loco?

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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1991 timetable 04/12/2019 at 22:40 #122077
swiftaw
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jc92 in post 122074 said:
swiftaw in post 122068 said:
jc92 in post 122065 said:
swiftaw in post 122063 said:
Whats the correct way to run around at Sudford Lane? When I tried, the loco kept going all the way to Knottingley station.
Any more info on what you did so we can tell if it should work or not?

If it's a straight forward run round I normally use the headshunts at either end of the reception lines but you should be able to reverse on the mainline too.
Have Down trains in sidings 1 and 2, loco in 1 needs to run around so train can head in the up direction. I sent the loco to stop at FE6473, which it did. So then I reversed in through FE6470 with the idea that it would stop once it passed FE6459 which i could use to get it back in the sidings. However it kept going through FE6450 towards Knottingley.
I cant reproduce this with a test timetable. at the risk of patronising you, is it definitely a run round? most locos go to/come from Knottingley TMD unless the train is to/from Kellingley. whats the headcode and UID of the train and/or loco?
So it turns out I'm an idiot who can't read the TT. Yes, the loco isn't running around, its scheduled to go to Knottingley TMD.

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1991 timetable 06/12/2019 at 15:51 #122114
KymriskaDraken
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I've sorted the various tt bugs and I have sent an updated version (1.6) of the timetable to the admins for a release.


Kev

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1991 timetable 06/12/2019 at 18:16 #122116
swiftaw
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KymriskaDraken in post 122114 said:
I've sorted the various tt bugs and I have sent an updated version (1.6) of the timetable to the admins for a release.


Kev
Version 1.6 now available in the updater. Just downloaded it.

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1991 timetable 09/12/2019 at 11:29 #122166
swiftaw
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So I have a strategy question. When a train is coming from Gascoigne Wood and is scheduled for a crew change at Ferrybridge North, what do you do if it is running ahead of schedule?

I've had a couple of instances where a train has been running ahead of schedule and had to wait at Ferrybridge for the crew to arrive while everything gets backed up behind it.

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