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Follow the leader even at a level crossing

You are here: Home > Forum > Miscellaneous > The real thing (anything else rail-oriented) > Follow the leader even at a level crossing

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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 13/04/2015 at 11:06 #71022
northroad
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Now this what I call just plain stupid but it would appear that no-one is going to take action or get prosecuted. Wonder what would have happened if it was in the UK...perhaps we would have set the route over a footbridge if there was one


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/apr/13/railway-company-complain-paris-roubaix-riders-ignore-level-crossing

Last edited: 13/04/2015 at 11:08 by northroad
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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 13/04/2015 at 11:21 #71023
jc92
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I wonder what the Linespeed is there. we don't have AHB's for anything over 100mph.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 13/04/2015 at 11:28 #71024
Firefly
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Glad to see they waited for the barriers to raise. Most deaths happen when people cross behind one train and don't consider there may be one coming the other way.
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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 13/04/2015 at 14:04 #71026
Jersey_Mike
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You can't blame the cyclists for that. They are focused on competing in a race. A railroad crossing has about as much meaning to them as traffic signs and signals that they also are not expected to obey. The onus is on the organizers to make sure that rail traffic is shut down...or that the race does not cross a rail line at grade.
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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 13/04/2015 at 14:10 #71027
Muzer
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I'd have thought that the bloody great barrier blocking your way that you have to actively cycle around would be somewhat of a clue. Or are you trying to tell me that cyclists are so braindead and running on instinct alone that they don't even notice this?
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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 13/04/2015 at 14:26 #71029
northroad
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Can you imagine what would have happened if, like just the other day in a race, one came off and then thirty or so went into him and there was bodies every where. Easily done I would have thought.

The police outrider who tried to stop them all was as much use as a chocolate fire guard to start off with.

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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 13/04/2015 at 14:46 #71030
Jersey_Mike
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" said:
I'd have thought that the bloody great barrier blocking your way that you have to actively cycle around would be somewhat of a clue. Or are you trying to tell me that cyclists are so braindead and running on instinct alone that they don't even notice this?
This wasn't a fun run, it was for money. A lot of money.

If I remember correctly when some British air transport safety organization wanted to simulate the complete dysfunction created when a jetliner cabin was on fire, all they had to do was offer money to the first people off the plane.

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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 13/04/2015 at 15:06 #71031
Steamer
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" said:
I wonder what the Linespeed is there. we don't have AHB's for anything over 100mph.
According to another forum, the train was on a 'classic' line, so I suspect it's relatively low by TGV standards.

" said:

You can't blame the cyclists for that. They are focused on competing in a race. A railroad crossing has about as much meaning to them as traffic signs and signals that they also are not expected to obey. The onus is on the organizers to make sure that rail traffic is shut down...or that the race does not cross a rail line at grade.
Option B is preferable, although I believe option A is used during the Tour-de-France and possibly other races.

The individuals themselves are primarily responsible- they know what barriers going down mean and what the rules of the race were. Fortunately the driver (and police etc.) didn't have to deal with the aftermath of half a dozen people being run over. Hopefully the race organisers will be forced to disqualify those involved, as letting them get away with it sets a bad precedent for both future races and the public as a whole.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 13/04/2015 at 15:07 by Steamer
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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 13/04/2015 at 16:14 #71032
clive
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" said:


If I remember correctly when some British air transport safety organization wanted to simulate the complete dysfunction created when a jetliner cabin was on fire, all they had to do was offer money to the first people off the plane.
"We offered five pounds to the first 50 people to get off the plane."
"What did you discover?"
"Two pounds fifty would have been enough."

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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 13/04/2015 at 19:01 #71036
Peter Bennet
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" said:
You can't blame the cyclists for that.
You should write for the Evening Standard.

Petr

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 13/04/2015 at 22:49 #71043
Finger
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" said:
Wonder what would have happened if it was in the UK...perhaps we would have set the route over a footbridge if there was one :(

Why? It would be just the same in the UK. For example, last year's Tour de France ran over this LC: https://goo.gl/maps/OBjNy

" said:
You can't blame the cyclists for that. They are focused on competing in a race. A railroad crossing has about as much meaning to them as traffic signs and signals that they also are not expected to obey.

Seriously, you CAN blame the cyclists for that. Crossing a closed LC is a serious violation of the rules of cycling races, and this is an established rule used all over the world. The rules also state how to deal with the situation (basically the race gets neutralized). The ones that crossed should be DQ'd under this rule, and if they haven't been, that is a fault of the organizers.

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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 13/04/2015 at 23:37 #71044
Muzer
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At least that's an MCB (or CCTV/MCB-OD if the crossing box has closed since my Quail map was printed). Did it go over any AHBCs?
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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 14/04/2015 at 10:06 #71046
ozrail
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You CAN blame the cyclists for is incident and I hope someone is charged. I feel sorry for the poor driver being confronted by this stupidity.
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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 14/04/2015 at 10:09 #71047
RainbowNines
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I'm a fan of cycling and partake myself. The Evening Standard is right to support cyclists - in London every Road user is as bad as each other (I have driven, cycled and walked in town - everyone is a clown).

I watched Paris-Roubaix live. Level crossings have always been a feature of the race and a couple of blokes were disqualified in 2006 for crossing with barriers down.

I think there's a lot left to be desired with organisation... After the barriers came up the organisers held the first half of the peloton back to allow those held up to catch up. If they'd made it clear that this would be the plan they probably wouldn't have been so desperate to get across.

One defence for some who went through while they were coming down is that they were riding on a closed Roadat a far higher speed than vehicle traffic would be going. They probably didn't even note the lights and barriers.

But when all said and done, barriers are there for a reason and this was stupid. I was more surprised by the number of gendarmes they'd persuaded to work a Sunday!!!

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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 14/04/2015 at 10:25 #71048
Danny252
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" said:

I think there's a lot left to be desired with organisation... After the barriers came up the organisers held the first half of the peloton back to allow those held up to catch up. If they'd made it clear that this would be the plan they probably wouldn't have been so desperate to get across.
Is it not standard practise to do so? What I've seen posted elsewhere implies that it's been done before.

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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 14/04/2015 at 11:38 #71050
RainbowNines
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The peloton does slow down for a number of reasons, but if you don't explicitly say so (and I don't think Paris-Roubaix organisers do - although happy to be corrected), a cyclist will probably assume you won't slow it down.

Like I say - I don't really think it's an excuse and I wasn't trying to defend. Don't know what the linespeed is round there but the TGV didn't pass at an exceptional speed (I'm not a great judge of speed but it didn't seem that quick) so I assume the driver saw what was occurring and slowed down. That he's had to do that is unforgivable enough, IMO.

The gendarme was a total waste of time.

I've just watched it back again - far more went round than the original live footage showed. Not great is it...

Last edited: 14/04/2015 at 11:39 by RainbowNines
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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 14/04/2015 at 12:51 #71051
Jersey_Mike
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" said:
You CAN blame the cyclists for is incident and I hope someone is charged. I feel sorry for the poor driver being confronted by this stupidity.
The organizers put the cyclists in a no-win situation. They should get the blame, not humans acting like humans.

Also give individual people some credit for having the ability to choose the amount of risk they are willing to take and for being able to handle somewhat startling events. This notion that people are akin to glass figurines that need to be protected at all costs is ultimately harmful to society.

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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 14/04/2015 at 14:16 #71061
Muzer
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" said:
" said:
You CAN blame the cyclists for is incident and I hope someone is charged. I feel sorry for the poor driver being confronted by this stupidity.
The organizers put the cyclists in a no-win situation. They should get the blame, not humans acting like humans.

Also give individual people some credit for having the ability to choose the amount of risk they are willing to take and for being able to handle somewhat startling events. This notion that people are akin to glass figurines that need to be protected at all costs is ultimately harmful to society.
But you seem to be forgetting that killing people has an aftermath. If it only affected the person taking the risk, in isolation, I'd probably agree with you. But it doesn't. Most obviously it affects the train driver. It affects all the passengers on the line who are delayed by that person's stupidity. It affects the people who have to clean up the mess. If you do it in a car, you could end up killing many more people if the train derails. Allowing people to take risks on level crossings is a terrible idea.

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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 14/04/2015 at 15:48 #71066
Danny252
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" said:
But you seem to be forgetting that killing people has an aftermath.
I'm not sure he forgets - as far as I can tell, he just doesn't care, as long as it ensures that the signalling is cheap.

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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 14/04/2015 at 17:44 #71079
GeoffM
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" said:
The organizers put the cyclists in a no-win situation. They should get the blame, not humans acting like humans.
My goodness, I actually agree with you. From what I read in the media, the organisers have their heads firmly buried in the sand over this, along with very slopey shoulders.

SimSig Boss
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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 14/04/2015 at 22:37 #71098
ozrail
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It's only the outcome that makes this debate possible. If one or more cyclist had be killed this incident would have be seen differently.
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Follow the leader even at a level crossing 15/04/2015 at 13:05 #71115
Jersey_Mike
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" said:
It's only the outcome that makes this debate possible. If one or more cyclist had be killed this incident would have be seen differently.
I think the best analogy is motorsport where drivers would die in crashes on unsafe courses. Yes one could blame the driver to driving too aggressively, but you can't expect competitors not to compete.

Take the LeMans start where the flag would drop and drivers would run to their cars, get in and go. Well to save time the drivers would often not fasten their safety equipment and eventually someone was killed on the first lap because of this. Even if you had a rule requiring the drivers to fully harness themselves you know that they would still cut whatever corners they could, so that's why the LeMans start was discontinued.

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