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| Shortcut keys 14/10/2011 at 13:32 #21764 | |
alvinhochun
249 posts |
Is there a list of shortcut keys for SimSig (general)? I know "i" is Interpose TD, "a" is Answer First Call (Is it? Once I multiplay I seem to get some phone calls for other workstations) Are there any else like Place Reminder Collsr or what? _ _ _ _，_ _ _ _！ (censored by the Hong Kong national security law) Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 14/10/2011 at 14:35 #21771 | |
postal
5190 posts |
A list would be very handy! Alvinhochun had bid A and I. I now offer P (Pause) and C (Clock - advances sim time by 15 mins). The scrolly sims also have hot keys which take you to selected locations on each sim; they should be listed in the sim manual on the Wiki. On the multiplay point, if any calls for wrong workstations are received, that is a bug. Users will help the developer if they can report such events so that the bug(s) can be fixed. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 14/10/2011 at 14:36 by postal Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 14/10/2011 at 14:51 #21772 | |
birchy74
151 posts |
I know that "A" answers the phone and "F" puts the speed to max for 5 mins sim time
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| Re: Shortcut keys 14/10/2011 at 15:43 #21775 | |
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mfcooper
707 posts |
" said:...C (Clock - advances sim time by 15 mins)...I think that's only in tester's (debug) versions of the sims. Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 14/10/2011 at 16:00 #21776 | |
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postal
5190 posts |
" said:" said:Once again Matt keeps me right....C (Clock - advances sim time by 15 mins)...I think that's only in tester's (debug) versions of the sims. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 14/10/2011 at 16:52 #21779 | |
dmaze
87 posts |
In paged sims, numbers 1 through 6 will jump to the corresponding page, and 0 to an overview page. Many of the "scrolly" sims (though not all) replicate that convention, and numbers 1 through 9 will jump to a specific horizontal spot in the sim.
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| Re: Shortcut keys 14/10/2011 at 19:37 #21787 | |
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AndyG
1834 posts |
N sets speed to normal(1.0x speed). " said: In paged sims, numbers 1 through 6 will jump to the corresponding page, and 0 to an overview page. Many of the "scrolly" sims (though not all) replicate that convention, and numbers 1 through 9 will jump to a specific horizontal spot in the sim. Also some (scrolly) simulations will jump to specific views by use of <shift>+letter, as detailed in documentation. Also Function Keys?... F1 Help F2 Train list F3 Show Options F4 Edit Timetable F5 Performance analysis F6 Telephone calls F7 Incident reports F8 Simplifier (later sims only) F9 not used F10 Send message (multiplay) F11 Incident control panel aka Assessor's panel (later sims only) I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Last edited: 14/10/2011 at 20:09 by AndyG Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 15/10/2011 at 08:46 #21793 | |
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alvinhochun
249 posts |
Thanks for telling. So here is a list of what I get now: [table] [tr] [td]A[/td] [td]Answer phone[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]F[/td] [td]Maximize speed for 5 minutes[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]I[/td] [td]Interpose TD[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]P[/td] [td]Pause/resume[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]F1[/td] [td]Help[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]F2[/td] [td]Train list[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]F3[/td] [td]Options[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]F4[/td] [td]Edit timetable[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]F5[/td] [td]Performance analysis[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]F6[/td] [td]Telephone calls[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]F7[/td] [td]Incident reports[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]F8[/td] [td]Simplifier[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]F10[/td] [td]Send message (multiplay)[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]F11[/td] [td]Incident control panel aka Assessor's panel[/td] [/tr] [/table] By the way, is there a shortcut for Reminder Collar and Isolation Collar? _ _ _ _，_ _ _ _！ (censored by the Hong Kong national security law) Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 15/10/2011 at 09:03 #21794 | |
GeoffM
6282 posts |
" said:By the way, is there a shortcut for Reminder Collar and Isolation Collar?No, those are mouse-only. The Wiki had the keyboard shortcuts in it but not in one place. I've adapted an existing page to include this information here. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 10/11/2011 at 13:49 #22694 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
It's not clear to me how pressing I is supposed to work. If (using Southampton sim) I right-click a TD, the context menu appears. If I press I (capital I, not number 1) instead of clicking Interpose, the familiar Interpose window appears with the instruction "Enter new description". However, If I press I without selecting a berth (=TD) with the crosshair cursor active, I get a different window named "TD interpose/cancel" with the slightly different wording "Enter text to interpose, or blank to cancel". Entering text, spaces or pressing Enter (equivalent to clicking OK) has NO effect, not surprisingly because no train was selected! How long since the code was checked for duplicate garbage like this? Well-designed menus usually have shortcut keys listed next to their option lists so threads like this don't need to be raised. If anyone hasn't noticed, pressing C while the context menu is active Cancels the TD, and pressing S Shows the timetable. Two more undocumented shortcuts to add to your list, though only marginally more useful than clicking twice to bring up a window. Interpose differs from the other shortcut menus in that first you must tell SimSig to which train you wish to apply it. Thanks to the berth system, I find it one of the most frequent tasks encountered in playing SimSig, yet two clicks make it annoying. I don't suppose OO Delphi is powerful enough to permit one to simply hover over the TD to change, the press "I"? That would be nice to see, along with finer graphics such as used by PC-Rail or SigCent's Doncaster, which would take it into the 21st century. Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 10/11/2011 at 14:06 #22696 | |
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alvinhochun
249 posts |
When you right-click to show the context menu for a TD, there is an item "Interpose" and when you press 'I' at the moment, it acts like clicking on the item (well, I think most of us will click on the item instead of pressing 'I'). For this, you can change the TD of that train. However when pressing 'I' without that, it acts the same as clicking on the "Interpose TD" button on the main window. At this moment, you can type in a TD, and then click on a signal, and if the signal has a TD berth associated to it an extra TD will appear. This is useful when you are dividing trains on a platform (which has two berths), or sometimes needed on a terminal station. (For example in Brighton, you have to manually interpose the TD to the outer berth, or else when the train departs, it will be in a mess. Try it!) _ _ _ _，_ _ _ _！ (censored by the Hong Kong national security law) Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 10/11/2011 at 17:09 #22706 | |
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GeoffM
6282 posts |
" said:However, If I press I without selecting a berth (=TD) with the crosshair cursor active, I get a different window named "TD interpose/cancel" with the slightly different wording "Enter text to interpose, or blank to cancel". Entering text, spaces or pressing Enter (equivalent to clicking OK) has NO effect, not surprisingly because no train was selected!See here " said: How long since the code was checked for duplicate garbage like this?Since the code is correct here, the question does not apply, but how often do you check for garbage comments before posting them? " said: I don't suppose OO Delphi is powerful enough to permit one to simply hover over the TD to change, the press "I"? That would be nice to see, along with finer graphics such as used by PC-Rail or SigCent's Doncaster, which would take it into the 21st century.All that would be highly unrealistic. If you want an arcade game with flashy graphics then go for the options you mention. If you want accurate graphics, operation, and realism, stick around here. We do try to help around here, and I am pleased that you have been given so much help. Yet you seem to be throwing it back in their face by turning every question into an attack, just because you don't understand it. SimSig is difficult because it's realistic. You're not going to be spoonfed everything in a simulation. Yes, our Wiki could do with some reorganisation and more sections added. That's where constructive criticism is welcomed, not nonsense comments like "How long since the code was checked for duplicate garbage". SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Peter Bennet, AndyG, TomOF, ipswich, ralphjwchadkirk, delticfan, Sam Tugwell, BarryM, DriverCurran, GoochyB, Josie |
| Re: Shortcut keys 10/11/2011 at 17:44 #22709 | |
jc92
3629 posts |
" said:That would be nice to see, along with finer graphics such as used by PC-Rail or SigCent's Doncaster, which would take it into the 21st century.but then it would cease to an accurate simulation would it not? last time i looked doncaster was a set of NX panels not westcad/iecc etc. i fail to see where SimSigs graphics are an issue? i find them clean, crisp and easy to view (as the real thing was designed to be). the only (hopefully) contructive crititism i could make is that paged sims wont stretch to fit a screen, probably a non-issue now sims are being produced in scrolly format "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following user said thank you: delticfan |
| Re: Shortcut keys 10/11/2011 at 18:02 #22711 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:Finer graphics?  Say hello to the Trent Valley desk in Rugby SCC. As they say a picture speaks a thousand words. As for paged sims stretching to fit a screen. Yes it is a pain, and because of my setup of monitors most people know I don't play paged sims regularly. However I DO very much appreciate the efforts of the Devs who give there time to move the older sims over to the new scrolly format. (Speaking of scrolly sims Saltley looks very nice stretched across 12 monitors, however I move off topic.) "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following users said thank you: delticfan, Sam Tugwell, GeoffM |
| Re: Shortcut keys 10/11/2011 at 19:24 #22720 | |
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Sam Tugwell
493 posts |
maxand said:That would be nice to see, along with finer graphics such as used by PC-Rail or SigCent's Doncaster, which would take it into the 21st century.I highly disagree with this (rather offensive) statement. You ask a question because you are stuck. Almost 100% of the time, we respond to your forums (or others that you have posted in). Quite often the developers of the simulation have spent their time answering your questions whilst they could have been doing work on other sims (or updating current sims). The last thing that they need is comments such as the one quoted at the top of this post. I hope you take the above statements and perhaps give a bit more respect (?) to the developers (and indeed the whole community). "Rant mode over". Tugz "Signalman Exeter" Log in to reply The following users said thank you: jc92, ipswich, delticfan |
| Re: Shortcut keys 10/11/2011 at 19:41 #22721 | |
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ipswich
247 posts |
if you think pc rail and sigcent have better graphics and dont like the SimSig graphics or they way SimSig is set out you know where the door is sorry had to be said Last edited: 10/11/2011 at 19:43 by ipswich Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 10/11/2011 at 20:10 #22723 | |
Peter Bennet
5360 posts |
Can we calm it down a bit please - we will consider future posts carefully and moderate accordingly. Thanks Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 10/11/2011 at 20:31 #22725 | |
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Sam Tugwell
493 posts |
Sorry Peter Tugz "Signalman Exeter" Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 10/11/2011 at 21:32 #22729 | |
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delticfan
476 posts |
For my own two pennorth regarding previous posts. I moved away from PC Rail as, while their graphics are good for what they do, I was tempted by Simsig because of its 'real world' use of graphics. Simsig graphics are, if anything, sharper than PC Rail and more closely reflect the 'feel' of a modern PSB, which surely is the whole point. I have been, and continue to be, very impressed by the quality and sheer hard work that goes into each Simsig production, together with excellent back up for relative newbies like myself. I would never have got as far, and had so much enjoyment without it. The shortcuts work fine for me both on the keyboard and the very useful mouse right-clicks. Personally, I see each sim as a challenge and always try to work through problems before admitting defeat and asking questions. Mal. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: GeoffM, Sam Tugwell, ipswich, AndyG |
| Re: Shortcut keys 11/11/2011 at 01:58 #22733 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks for your vigorous feedback. I can see this will be a long and difficult apprenticeship.  Before getting myself into hotter water I see I'll need to spend more time making sense of the interface and conventions that you gentlemen seem to take for granted. From the viewpoint of a programmer with a particular interest in software usability (read playability here), SimSig's interface and documentation still leave much to be desired, maybe because playability has been compromised for realism. Newbies and devil's advocates have a lot in common They are usually on the other side of a tall fence from software and website developers. Speaking from personal experience I never cease to be amazed by the number of major usability flaws uncovered by people coming in "off the street" to try out my software or website. Read Steve Krug's excellent little book Don't Make Me Think. The Trent Valley desk - is this reality or your home setup? No matter, it's impressive and thanks for posting it. The key feature here, justifying the expense of all these monitors, is that the eye is faster than the mouse wheel. I don't know which causes more eyestrain, jerky scrolling or multiple page views. The best solution is neither, as Trent Valley shows. However, the benefits must be negated somewhat by the constant need to turn one's head to see all the screens. The train controller sims I have enjoyed most of all are those I've been able to fit onto a single screen, even if this means reducing its scope. When I mentioned SigCent Doncaster in terms of fine graphics, I was referring to the 2007 demo, which IMO is far superior to earlier SigCent sims at other locations. I don't like their wavy dotted lines and borders around signal icons (though this was probably done to be able to vary the background colour), but in these days of cheap hi-res monitors (mine was 1280 x 800, now 1600 x 900, by no means huge) so much more track can be fitted onto one screen that the sensible solution must surely be to improve SimSig to compress a large scrolling display (hate the term "scrolly"  into one screen, two at the most*. I would be willing to shell out for a single large monitor if the software supported it. PC Rail is another example of this principle in action.*(added) by stacking track segments one above the other Which raises the uncomfortable question: What place does comfort and user enjoyment have in SimSig? Is it putting the cart before the horse to prioritize realism over playability? I'm willing to bet that the hardware and software used in real displays varies a lot and is probably antiquated anyway. If the man in the signal box could ask for the most ergonomically efficient display, it would probably be a large single screen with the utmost attention paid to the user interface. SimSig should be no different. Being a game and not reality inevitably requires that some compromises be made. Let's not fool ourselves; this is just a game - we are not controlling real trains. - Newbies should be able to start with comprehensive Help turned on (optionally disabled later). By comprehensive Help I mean screentips, popup message boxes with adequate static text, direct links back to the relevant section of the manual, glossary, etc., shortcuts listed alongside menu options, "What does this do?" icons on windows, suitably verbose error messages, etc. - Bearing in mind that the user alternates frequently between keyboard and mouse (to interpose TDs, for example), the number of keypresses and clicks should be reduced to the minimum. One solution is for more things to happen when one hovers over an object with a mouse. - As much as possible should be streamlined, making SimSig a visually and emotionally satisfying game for beginners. A more realistic interface is great, but its components should be optional. Forgetting about berths and having TDs which change themselves is one suggestion. It's not just enough to say "Have fun with timetables". (added) If for example the real life signalbox computer display does NOT use advanced software which takes advantage of, say, hover techniques, then SimSig developers have the added dilemma of choosing between real-life but more primitive displays and a more modern graphical interface that supports these measures. A step in the right direction, I discovered, is in the Southampton sig, which I am currently playing. The manual states: Quote: Eastleigh does not have an ARS - but you do! It has been programmed to handle most of the main passenger workings, with the exception of call-on routes, shunt routes, and any routes into sidings, yards, or goods lines.Not realistic at all - but much more playable. Don't get me wrong, I support authenticity too, but advocate this as an option for more experienced players. (end of addition) Sims such as Train Dispatcher (about the same vintage and also written in Delphi IIRC) take a simplified approach to signalling and, with a better manual, illustrate the point I am trying to make here. It also has a "Classic Mode" view which you can turn on or off. The more "realistic" SimSig tries to be, the more it may need to explain why a particular sim was constructed this way. The more realistic the detail included, the harder it may be to see the "why", the less freedom the user has to move in anything but the prescribed manner, and the more incomprehensible things become when something goes wrong. Adequate built-in information is the only way of fending this off. Last edited: 11/11/2011 at 05:36 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 11/11/2011 at 02:20 #22734 | |
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AndyG
1834 posts |
" said:SimSig should be no different. Being a game and not reality inevitably requires that some compromises be made. Let's not fool ourselves; this is just a game - we are not controlling real trains.SimSig is NOT "just a game"; it is, and intended to be a simulation, and therefore close as possible to simulating the real thing. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: delticfan, Sam Tugwell |
| Re: Shortcut keys 11/11/2011 at 04:50 #22735 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
So I guess in real life too one can speed up time, remove a train or shorten its length so it will fit in a siding?  C'mon, don't take it so seriously. With all due respect, the few SimSig sigs I've played so far have had so many minor but frustrating bugs (such as TDs suddenly disappearing, trains becoming unaccountably stuck) these would probably not be tolerated in a real life training sim. Anyway, the essence of this thread is about shortcuts - my fault for digressing. I can see I'm going to have to write some keyboard macros to reduce the workload. Save the mouse, never mind the whales. 
Last edited: 11/11/2011 at 05:07 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 11/11/2011 at 05:34 #22736 | |
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alvinhochun
249 posts |
A little more off topic: How's that TD suddenly disappearing? Is it location-specific? In Brighton (for example), this may be an issue for newbies. In real world, I think removing trains and shorten its length is somehow possible, i.e. use some heavy instruments to remove the train :P How about speed up time? Most of the simulation programs I've came across have this ability! So I don't think it is an issue. OK, back to the original topic, in real world, are there any convenient way to apply collars? _ _ _ _，_ _ _ _！ (censored by the Hong Kong national security law) Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 11/11/2011 at 05:40 #22737 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:How's that TD suddenly disappearing? Is it location-specific?From memory it occurred with some goods trains in some yards getting "xxxx" in their TDs or sometimes losing their berths completely. I didn't note down the details, but will keep a lookout next time. Thanks for asking. Log in to reply |
| Re: Shortcut keys 11/11/2011 at 08:15 #22739 | |
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Late Turn
696 posts |
Quote:OK, back to the original topic, in real world, are there any convenient way to apply collars? Yes - in IECC reality, it's done just as Simsig simulates it. On an panel or a lever frame, it's even easier - the button or lever is physically collared by a device that makes it impossible to operate the button or lever without removing it. In most cases that I've encountered, disappearing TDs (particularly on shunt routes) aren't a 'bug', but rather a deliberate attempt to replicate the real thing - and I for one will continue to support that approach. It makes it harder to get to grips with Simsig, but it's worth it once you've got used to it! Log in to reply |