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Crewe FAQ

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Crewe FAQ 17/04/2023 at 17:29 #151193
headshot119
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Crewe Frequently Asked Questions

Do you think you've found a bug? Or if you have a problem running the simulation, check through this thread first.

Remember timetables are dealt with in the relevant timetable thread.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
Last edited: 17/04/2023 at 18:58 by headshot119
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Crewe FAQ 07/05/2023 at 17:13 #151707
MrSuttonmann
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Had a train (sorry, no save, I remembered a few days later) depart Crewe for the Electric Depot. Accidentally signaled from CE161 to SW2 and he didn't call wrong route. Luckily I noticed in time and I had to stop and reverse him at SW13 to go in through the back door.

Secondly, I had an LE reverse at Western Sidings to go into the wagon shop. His headcode disappeared once arrived at Western Sidings even though he was only reversing there and not exiting.

Thirdly, it might be worth reviewing the interpose functionality on the Gresty Lane Down Through Siding signals GL53, GL9014, GL9015 (which don't have it) and GL55 & GL46 (which do have it). A train which is timetabled through the Down Through loses its headcode unless manually interposed on GL46. I imagine this might be intended behaviour.

Fourth, and final - Trains departing platform 1 towards Wilmslow don't pick up a TD interposed on CE136 at the other end of the platform, unlike the other through platforms at Crewe. The TD gets left and the train departs without a code. This doesn't happen if the train is signalled into the EMU stabling siding, however.

All these are in the 2007 - 2015 era, I've not checked any other era.

(Formerly known as manadude2)
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Crewe FAQ 07/05/2023 at 18:06 #151708
pedroathome
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MrSuttonmann in post 151707 said:

Had a train (sorry, no save, I remembered a few days later) depart Crewe for the Electric Depot. Accidentally signaled from CE161 to SW2 and he didn't call wrong route. Luckily I noticed in time and I had to stop and reverse him at SW13 to go in through the back door.

Mantis 38627 - Applies for both routes from this signal

MrSuttonmann in post 151707 said:

Secondly, I had an LE reverse at Western Sidings to go into the wagon shop. His headcode disappeared once arrived at Western Sidings even though he was only reversing there and not exiting.
This is intentional behavior and has been done this way to be consistent with the TD stepping on Crewe PSB. Once the final track clears, the berth will also clear out. You'll see this also happening with one of the early morning trains which goes into the Down Refuge Siding on Crewe PSB South.

MrSuttonmann in post 151707 said:

Thirdly, it might be worth reviewing the interpose functionality on the Gresty Lane Down Through Siding signals GL53, GL9014, GL9015 (which don't have it) and GL55 & GL46 (which do have it). A train which is timetabled through the Down Through loses its headcode unless manually interposed on GL46. I imagine this might be intended behaviour.
Mantis 38628 - I need to see whats going on here, and why I did what I did

MrSuttonmann in post 151707 said:

Fourth, and final - Trains departing platform 1 towards Wilmslow don't pick up a TD interposed on CE136 at the other end of the platform, unlike the other through platforms at Crewe. The TD gets left and the train departs without a code. This doesn't happen if the train is signalled into the EMU stabling siding, however.
Mantis 38629 - This is the only bit I will need a save on. I can see that there is something different between the TD stepping between Platforms 1 & 5 but I can't see why a TD would be getting left at the berth for CE136 and not shuttling across, unless Signal CE136 was also showing a proceed aspect.

MrSuttonmann in post 151707 said:

All these are in the 2007 - 2015 era, I've not checked any other era.
With the exception of your third issue, the issues will apply in all eras. (Maybe different clearing out conditions at Gresty Lane). I think there is more TD berths available in the 2016 era at Gresty Lane.

James

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Crewe FAQ 09/05/2023 at 08:28 #151723
MrSuttonmann
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pedroathome in post 151708 said:


MrSuttonmann in post 151707 said:

Fourth, and final - Trains departing platform 1 towards Wilmslow don't pick up a TD interposed on CE136 at the other end of the platform, unlike the other through platforms at Crewe. The TD gets left and the train departs without a code. This doesn't happen if the train is signalled into the EMU stabling siding, however.
Mantis 38629 - This is the only bit I will need a save on. I can see that there is something different between the TD stepping between Platforms 1 & 5 but I can't see why a TD would be getting left at the berth for CE136 and not shuttling across, unless Signal CE136 was also showing a proceed aspect.
Hi James, thanks for looking at and clarifying these issues.

Please ignore my fourth issue - it seems I was mistaken. The trains DO leave with an interposed TD on the far signal, however if you have a train enter P1 from Sandbach which returns back to Manchester and interpose the new TD on the departure end, it will leave the old TD on the far end signal after departure. I saw this happen and incorrectly assumed that the train had left without its headcode.

(Formerly known as manadude2)
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Crewe FAQ 09/05/2023 at 18:05 #151726
pedroathome
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MrSuttonmann in post 151723 said:
pedroathome in post 151708 said:


MrSuttonmann in post 151707 said:

Fourth, and final - Trains departing platform 1 towards Wilmslow don't pick up a TD interposed on CE136 at the other end of the platform, unlike the other through platforms at Crewe. The TD gets left and the train departs without a code. This doesn't happen if the train is signalled into the EMU stabling siding, however.
Mantis 38629 - This is the only bit I will need a save on. I can see that there is something different between the TD stepping between Platforms 1 & 5 but I can't see why a TD would be getting left at the berth for CE136 and not shuttling across, unless Signal CE136 was also showing a proceed aspect.
Hi James, thanks for looking at and clarifying these issues.

Please ignore my fourth issue - it seems I was mistaken. The trains DO leave with an interposed TD on the far signal, however if you have a train enter P1 from Sandbach which returns back to Manchester and interpose the new TD on the departure end, it will leave the old TD on the far end signal after departure. I saw this happen and incorrectly assumed that the train had left without its headcode.
No worries. Its an easy one to miss whats going on at times, and probably doesn't help with the last sent berths clearing out, mixed with the platform berths not clearing when the track clears.

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Crewe FAQ 10/05/2023 at 12:08 #151741
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An additional minor one - there's a typo when receiving a slot from Crewe Carriage Shed: "Permission granted for 5U47 (Crewe Cariage Shed 2)"
(Formerly known as manadude2)
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Crewe FAQ 16/05/2023 at 21:07 #151861
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Found two missing paths from Crewe Platform 9 to FL/SL Crewe Coal Yard SB. Both throw up the pathing error in the latest era. Crewe Platform 10 to FL/SL Crewe Coal Yard SB is all ok no issues.
Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer
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Crewe FAQ 16/05/2023 at 21:11 #151862
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HST125Scorton in post 151861 said:
Found two missing paths from Crewe Platform 9 to FL/SL Crewe Coal Yard SB. Both throw up the pathing error in the latest era. Crewe Platform 10 to FL/SL Crewe Coal Yard SB is all ok no issues.
It's not possible to depart platform 9 towards Crewe Coal Yard, you can only route onto the Down / Up Chester lines.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Crewe FAQ 16/05/2023 at 21:14 #151863
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headshot119 in post 151862 said:
HST125Scorton in post 151861 said:
Found two missing paths from Crewe Platform 9 to FL/SL Crewe Coal Yard SB. Both throw up the pathing error in the latest era. Crewe Platform 10 to FL/SL Crewe Coal Yard SB is all ok no issues.
It's not possible to depart platform 9 towards Crewe Coal Yard, you can only route onto the Down / Up Chester lines.
Doh!! I forgot about that!!. It's only Platform 10.... Whoopsie from myself there, please disregard this then.

Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer
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Crewe FAQ 18/05/2023 at 18:19 #151898
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I don't think this issue has been reported yet, and I can find no reference to it being a "known issue", but the "Last Sent" berths at the following locations never show the headcode of the last train sent. They are perpetually blank:

Down Main towards Acton Grange
Down Liverpool towards Runcorn
Up Branch towards Hartford CLC
Down Wilmslow towards Sydney Bridge Junction
Down Salop towards Salop Goods (Exit A)
Down Liverpool Ind towards Crewe Coal Yard (Exit B1)
Down Manchester Ind towards Sydney Bridge Junction and Sandbach
Up Salop towards Gresty Lane (exit A) (this one isn't even labelled "Last Sent")
Down Goods towards Gresty lane (Exit G) (also not labelled)
Up Independent towards Basford Hall Junction (Exit E)

Of the remaining berths, the only one I have seen with a headcode in it is the one on the Down Main approaching Crewe Station from the Gresty Lane panel (Exit F). I can't remember if I've sent trains via any others I haven't mentioned, so I can't say if they exhibit the same behaviour.

EDIT - I made a point of watching 5N14 exit the area Acton Grange. The berth displayed the headcode as the train approached the exit, up until the final track circuit became unoccupied. The berth then went blank as the train exited the sim. I assume all the others listed above are doing the same.

Last edited: 18/05/2023 at 18:29 by lazzer
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Crewe FAQ 18/05/2023 at 18:31 #151899
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https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=simulations:Crewe:Features

TD Stepping

TD stepping around the Crewe area might look inconsistent but is implemented based on plans and observations from Network Rail Open Data Feeds. There are some inconsistencies with how train describers are normally depicted in SimSig.

Important to note is that the Last Sent berths will populate when the adjacent area will see the description in their approach berth. One example is the last sent to Kidsgrove will populate as a train steps into the berths for Signals CE196 and CR198 with a route set through.

Approach berths to Crewe PSB’s fringe boxes will populate when the last sent berth would populate in reality. This is generally, but not always when a train has two green signals ahead of it.

Last Sent berths will all clear out when the last track circuit in the route clears.

How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue
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Crewe FAQ 18/05/2023 at 18:46 #151900
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I even read that page a few days ago ...
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Crewe FAQ 18/05/2023 at 19:39 #151901
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It's alright, I think everyone that tested the sim went "huh?" when presented with the correct behaviour of those Last Sent berths.

Absolutely perplexing design that seems to defeat the purpose of having them.

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Crewe FAQ 19/05/2023 at 15:01 #151904
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Does the same thing apply to the berth for the Down Refuge Siding at Crewe? You can manually interpose a headcode, but what's the point of it if you have to do that?
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Crewe FAQ 19/05/2023 at 17:57 #151905
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lazzer in post 151904 said:
Does the same thing apply to the berth for the Down Refuge Siding at Crewe? You can manually interpose a headcode, but what's the point of it if you have to do that?
As per the manual in the crewe PSB Section

Quote:
Routes to the Shunt Neck, Carriage Shed, Down Refuge Siding, CE543 and CE551 will initially step, before clearing out as the train goes into the siding. Conversely, on the North end of the panel, descriptions will clear out when stepping towards the Engine Siding (CE570).

Manual section here

Last edited: 19/05/2023 at 17:58 by y10g9
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Crewe FAQ 22/05/2023 at 16:18 #151924
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Should there be a route from NH7 to Up Arrival 2? It looks possible from the track layout but I get the 'no route between selected signals' warning when I try it
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Crewe FAQ 22/05/2023 at 16:37 #151925
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Splodge in post 151924 said:
Should there be a route from NH7 to Up Arrival 2? It looks possible from the track layout but I get the 'no route between selected signals' warning when I try it
Just double checked and no, no route from NH7 to Up Arrival 2.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Crewe FAQ 22/05/2023 at 18:12 #151926
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Thanks for checking.

For my sins I'm trying the Salop Goods closure scenario - the only issue I'm having is the headcode transfer from Crewe PSB to Sorting Sidings via NH7/CE543 seems very hit and miss as to whether it works, even though I've consistently used the through acceptance buttons (I know this is more for point locking) - sometimes the headcode transfers right through onto the next panel, other times it sticks at the 'wrong' end on the slot screen. Does a completely through route need to be set (rather than holding at NH7/CE543)?

There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Crewe FAQ 22/05/2023 at 19:27 #151927
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Splodge in post 151926 said:
Thanks for checking.

For my sins I'm trying the Salop Goods closure scenario - the only issue I'm having is the headcode transfer from Crewe PSB to Sorting Sidings via NH7/CE543 seems very hit and miss as to whether it works, even though I've consistently used the through acceptance buttons (I know this is more for point locking) - sometimes the headcode transfers right through onto the next panel, other times it sticks at the 'wrong' end on the slot screen. Does a completely through route need to be set (rather than holding at NH7/CE543)?
Mantis 38704

It will be down to the length of the train which is why it will appear random at the moment. Long trains won't do this.

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Crewe FAQ 24/05/2023 at 17:26 #151945
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Just a query regarding freight at Basford Hall SSM/SSN that are booked to stop for 20-30min upto 1 hour will the trains 'fall off the sim?' while waiting there booked time? Example train Freightliner's 6V51 Tunstead to Park Royal Macron has a layover from 0029-0118. If I place into the Arrival road either will it stay within the yard and come back out if I have 'Wait for Time' on it? I'll presume I'll need Basford Hall SSM/SSN in the timetable?

From the manual 'Trains which have been routed via either the Up Arrival No.1 or No.2 or the Up Loop on Sorting Sidings North, and are timetabled through to Basford Hall Junction will reappear on the respective Up Departure No.1 or No.2 and Up Neck. As with trains entering, they will phone for permission to pass the stop board.'

Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer
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Crewe FAQ 24/05/2023 at 17:57 #151946
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HST125Scorton in post 151945 said:
Just a query regarding freight at Basford Hall SSM/SSN that are booked to stop for 20-30min upto 1 hour will the trains 'fall off the sim?' while waiting there booked time? Example train Freightliner's 6V51 Tunstead to Park Royal Macron has a layover from 0029-0118. If I place into the Arrival road either will it stay within the yard and come back out if I have 'Wait for Time' on it? I'll presume I'll need Basford Hall SSM/SSN in the timetable?

From the manual 'Trains which have been routed via either the Up Arrival No.1 or No.2 or the Up Loop on Sorting Sidings North, and are timetabled through to Basford Hall Junction will reappear on the respective Up Departure No.1 or No.2 and Up Neck. As with trains entering, they will phone for permission to pass the stop board.'
If the train is booked to stop in Basford Hall, and then continue south, the schedule has to be split as the train will fall off the sim when it enters Basford Hall yard, and will need a second schedule for it to enter at the south end of the yard.

The line from the manual only relates to trains that are not booked to enter Basford Hall (booked to travel on the independant lines) but are diverted into the yard

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Crewe FAQ 24/05/2023 at 19:14 #151947
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y10g9 in post 151946 said:
HST125Scorton in post 151945 said:
Just a query regarding freight at Basford Hall SSM/SSN that are booked to stop for 20-30min upto 1 hour will the trains 'fall off the sim?' while waiting there booked time? Example train Freightliner's 6V51 Tunstead to Park Royal Macron has a layover from 0029-0118. If I place into the Arrival road either will it stay within the yard and come back out if I have 'Wait for Time' on it? I'll presume I'll need Basford Hall SSM/SSN in the timetable?

From the manual 'Trains which have been routed via either the Up Arrival No.1 or No.2 or the Up Loop on Sorting Sidings North, and are timetabled through to Basford Hall Junction will reappear on the respective Up Departure No.1 or No.2 and Up Neck. As with trains entering, they will phone for permission to pass the stop board.'
If the train is booked to stop in Basford Hall, and then continue south, the schedule has to be split as the train will fall off the sim when it enters Basford Hall yard, and will need a second schedule for it to enter at the south end of the yard.

The line from the manual only relates to trains that are not booked to enter Basford Hall (booked to travel on the independant lines) but are diverted into the yard

Thank you for explaining that's good enough to boost me confidence a little. The 6 timetables I've done for Crewe I avoided placing the freight in via Basford Hall till now.

Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer
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Crewe FAQ 25/05/2023 at 07:02 #151951
Jan
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y10g9 in post 151946 said:
The line from the manual only relates to trains that are not booked to enter Basford Hall (booked to travel on the independant lines) but are diverted into the yard

Not quite, it also covers trains that are laying over on the Arrival lines or the Up Loop without shunting into the yard proper. Off-hand I don't remember whether the timetable contains any examples of the former (though I have an inkling that there's at least one train that is booked via the No. 1 Arrival and is consequently one of the few trains to also use the No. 1 Departure), but in any case there definitively are some trains booked via the Basford Hall Up Loop.

Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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Crewe FAQ 25/05/2023 at 10:46 #151952
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question folks : 1M13 goes through Crewe station nonstop and I had it signalled through on the UF

it slows down to 15mph through the station on the UF . Is this correct ?

rerunning the save and it doesnt happen drops to 80 only.

sorry ! If it happens again I'll try and trap it in a save

Last edited: 25/05/2023 at 10:54 by slatteryc
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Crewe FAQ 25/05/2023 at 11:05 #151953
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slatteryc in post 151952 said:
question folks : 1M13 goes through Crewe station nonstop and I had it signalled through on the UF

it slows down to 15mph through the station on the UF . Is this correct ?

rerunning the save and it doesnt happen drops to 80 only.

sorry ! If it happens again I'll try and trap it in a save
Was just about to ask, did he have greens all the way or has he approached cautions before the routes were set?
I also can't replicate this and the track data is good for 80 throughout the UF though the station.

Craig

How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue
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