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Warrington Summer 1992 TT

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 17/03/2024 at 21:39 #155735
lazzer
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postal in post 155713 said:
lazzer in post 155707 said:
58050 in post 155671 said:
lazzer in post 155670 said:
I don't own a licence for Warrington, but I may have to get one now, just to play another one of your crazy timetables, Pascal :-)
Why the hell not Neil. It is certainly a challenging TT if I say so myself & those who tested it would also agreed it does have it's moments. As one tester stated at times it's as busy as the Carlisle 79-80 TT.
Well, I did it.

And managed to challenge MYSELF by signalling a train into the MSC siding, and then absent-mindedly putting another one right in behind it instead of into Latchford! Much abandoning of timetables and reversing back and forth ensued to be able to release the engines for the run rounds LOL.

Oh well ...
I learnt from bitter experience that nominating two rows in the scratchpad for MSC and Latchford was better then relying on my memory!
The funny thing was, I WAS using the scratchpad, but I thought I'd put the first train in Latchford (and typed that into the scratchpad), when I'd actually put it in MSC. hence the chaos that ensued :-)

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 17/03/2024 at 21:44 #155736
58050
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lazzer in post 155735 said:
postal in post 155713 said:
lazzer in post 155707 said:
58050 in post 155671 said:
lazzer in post 155670 said:
I don't own a licence for Warrington, but I may have to get one now, just to play another one of your crazy timetables, Pascal :-)
Why the hell not Neil. It is certainly a challenging TT if I say so myself & those who tested it would also agreed it does have it's moments. As one tester stated at times it's as busy as the Carlisle 79-80 TT.
Well, I did it.

And managed to challenge MYSELF by signalling a train into the MSC siding, and then absent-mindedly putting another one right in behind it instead of into Latchford! Much abandoning of timetables and reversing back and forth ensued to be able to release the engines for the run rounds LOL.
Oh well ...
I learnt from bitter experience that nominating two rows in the scratchpad for MSC and Latchford was better then relying on my memory!
The funny thing was, I WAS using the scratchpad, but I thought I'd put the first train in Latchford (and typed that into the scratchpad), when I'd actually put it in MSC. hence the chaos that ensued :-)
You won't make that mistake again Neil.

Last edited: 17/03/2024 at 21:45 by 58050
Reason: corrected post

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 18/03/2024 at 15:51 #155746
lazzer
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58050 in post 155736 said:
You won't make that mistake again Neil.
I got to around 11am and decided to restart, but this time with three random scenarios selected.

I've currently got most of the main/fast line between Wigan and Warrington closed, which should make it a bit more interesting now :-)

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 18/03/2024 at 16:06 #155748
58050
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lazzer in post 155746 said:
58050 in post 155736 said:
You won't make that mistake again Neil.
I got to around 11am and decided to restart, but this time with three random scenarios selected.

I've currently got most of the main/fast line between Wigan and Warrington closed, which should make it a bit more interesting now :-)
Let me know how you get on Neil as the TT was written & tested without any scenarios running. Hope you didn't start again cos it wasn't busy enough for you?

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 18/03/2024 at 16:39 #155751
lazzer
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58050 in post 155748 said:
lazzer in post 155746 said:
58050 in post 155736 said:
You won't make that mistake again Neil.
I got to around 11am and decided to restart, but this time with three random scenarios selected.

I've currently got most of the main/fast line between Wigan and Warrington closed, which should make it a bit more interesting now :-)
Let me know how you get on Neil as the TT was written & tested without any scenarios running. Hope you didn't start again cos it wasn't busy enough for you?
If anything Pascal, after playing Carlisle 79/80, West Yorks 1991, and Motherwell 1984, it's relatively pedestrian in comparison :-)

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 18/03/2024 at 17:29 #155752
tjtbcork
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Just a little error.

6M241656MTHO is set to run on TUE and FRI.

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 18/03/2024 at 18:50 #155755
lazzer
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58050 in post 155748 said:
lazzer in post 155746 said:
58050 in post 155736 said:
You won't make that mistake again Neil.
I got to around 11am and decided to restart, but this time with three random scenarios selected.

I've currently got most of the main/fast line between Wigan and Warrington closed, which should make it a bit more interesting now :-)
Let me know how you get on Neil as the TT was written & tested without any scenarios running. Hope you didn't start again cos it wasn't busy enough for you?
I'm up to 01.05, and regulating trains at Golborne Junction is already an interesting puzzle that needs to be kept an eye on. It will only get worse when the passenger trains start running. An interesting by-product of having only the Down Fast blocked between Warrington and Winwick Junction is that down trains have to run on the Up Slow in the down direction, and while one is doing that you might be able to sneak an up train across Winwick and onto the Up Fast so the railway becomes right-hand running for a short while. Using the Up Slow for movements in both directions is just silly.

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 18/03/2024 at 19:02 #155757
lazzer
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Pascal - just to give you some idea of the like blockages I have in place, and the single line I have to thread all the trains through.

Through trains between Wigan and Acton Grange Junction are losing about 15 minutes in each direction due to the diversion. And that's with a clear run.


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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 18/03/2024 at 19:09 #155758
Steamer
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lazzer in post 155755 said:
58050 in post 155748 said:
lazzer in post 155746 said:
58050 in post 155736 said:
You won't make that mistake again Neil.
I got to around 11am and decided to restart, but this time with three random scenarios selected.

I've currently got most of the main/fast line between Wigan and Warrington closed, which should make it a bit more interesting now :-)
Let me know how you get on Neil as the TT was written & tested without any scenarios running. Hope you didn't start again cos it wasn't busy enough for you?
I'm up to 01.05, and regulating trains at Golborne Junction is already an interesting puzzle that needs to be kept an eye on. It will only get worse when the passenger trains start running. An interesting by-product of having only the Down Fast blocked between Warrington and Winwick Junction is that down trains have to run on the Up Slow in the down direction, and while one is doing that you might be able to sneak an up train across Winwick and onto the Up Fast so the railway becomes right-hand running for a short while. Using the Up Slow for movements in both directions is just silly.
Strictly speaking, I don't think this scenario would have been possible in 1992- as far as I know the bi-di from Dallam to Winwick was only installed in the late 90s when Dallam RMT was built.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 18/03/2024 at 19:16 #155759
lazzer
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Steamer in post 155758 said:
lazzer in post 155755 said:
58050 in post 155748 said:
lazzer in post 155746 said:
58050 in post 155736 said:
You won't make that mistake again Neil.
I got to around 11am and decided to restart, but this time with three random scenarios selected.

I've currently got most of the main/fast line between Wigan and Warrington closed, which should make it a bit more interesting now :-)
Let me know how you get on Neil as the TT was written & tested without any scenarios running. Hope you didn't start again cos it wasn't busy enough for you?
I'm up to 01.05, and regulating trains at Golborne Junction is already an interesting puzzle that needs to be kept an eye on. It will only get worse when the passenger trains start running. An interesting by-product of having only the Down Fast blocked between Warrington and Winwick Junction is that down trains have to run on the Up Slow in the down direction, and while one is doing that you might be able to sneak an up train across Winwick and onto the Up Fast so the railway becomes right-hand running for a short while. Using the Up Slow for movements in both directions is just silly.
Strictly speaking, I don't think this scenario would have been possible in 1992- as far as I know the bi-di from Dallam to Winwick was only installed in the late 90s when Dallam RMT was built.
Ssssssshhhhhhh ... :-)

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 18/03/2024 at 19:28 #155760
58050
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tjtbcork in post 155752 said:
Just a little error.

6M241656MTHO is set to run on TUE and FRI.
I think you've put the wrong UID up as this train doesn't exist in my Warrington 1992 TT.

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 18/03/2024 at 20:20 #155762
postal
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58050 in post 155760 said:
tjtbcork in post 155752 said:
Just a little error.

6M241656MTHO is set to run on TUE and FRI.
I think you've put the wrong UID up as this train doesn't exist in my Warrington 1992 TT.
If the poster means 6M64 then the confusion has arisen as the train is booked to depart Elgin at 1656 MTHO meaning that after its long trek from the North of Scotland and nice rests at Mossend and possibly Carlisle it is on the Warrington panel TFO.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 18/03/2024 at 20:21 by postal
Reason: None given

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 18/03/2024 at 21:12 #155765
tjtbcork
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58050 in post 155760 said:
tjtbcork in post 155752 said:
Just a little error.

6M241656MTHO is set to run on TUE and FRI.
I think you've put the wrong UID up as this train doesn't exist in my Warrington 1992 TT.
Ya 6M64 is the train I meant, but...

postal in post 155762 said:
58050 in post 155760 said:
tjtbcork in post 155752 said:
Just a little error.

6M241656MTHO is set to run on TUE and FRI.
I think you've put the wrong UID up as this train doesn't exist in my Warrington 1992 TT.
If the poster means 6M64 then the confusion has arisen as the train is booked to depart Elgin at 1656 MTHO meaning that after its long trek from the North of Scotland and nice rests at Mossend and possibly Carlisle it is on the Warrington panel TFO.
Ya that is the mistake I made. Sorry!

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 18/03/2024 at 23:39 #155766
postal
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tjtbcork in post 155765 said:
Ya that is the mistake I made. Sorry!
Not really a mistake when you consider the complexity of Pascal's TTs. Just enjoy the ride.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 19/03/2024 at 11:51 #155773
Splodge
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More of an era question as I've seen it in various BR-era TTs for Warrington, but why wasn't P6 at Wigan used for turnback passenger services? Was WN25 a later addition or was it seen to be less preferable despite the need for trains using 2/3 to cross the up and down mains? Or was it simply easier for transfer from trains from Scotland?
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 19/03/2024 at 12:57 #155774
58050
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Splodge in post 155773 said:
More of an era question as I've seen it in various BR-era TTs for Warrington, but why wasn't P6 at Wigan used for turnback passenger services? Was WN25 a later addition or was it seen to be less preferable despite the need for trains using 2/3 to cross the up and down mains? Or was it simply easier for transfer from trains from Scotland?
Personally I don't really know the answer to your quiery. My railway career was mainly spent on the freight operations side & my time on the footplate was on the Midland mainline as opposed to the WCML. That said I have both the summer 1992 arrival & departure books for Warrington Bank Quay & Wigan North Western & the platforms allocated to trains that stop at either I used the platform that was printed in the book against the said trains. Maybe the best 2 users to ask who live/d in that area would be either swiftlaw or HST125Scorton as they may have some local knowledge as to why.

Last edited: 19/03/2024 at 13:00 by 58050
Reason: None given

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 19/03/2024 at 21:34 #155776
Steamer
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Splodge in post 155773 said:
More of an era question as I've seen it in various BR-era TTs for Warrington, but why wasn't P6 at Wigan used for turnback passenger services? Was WN25 a later addition or was it seen to be less preferable despite the need for trains using 2/3 to cross the up and down mains? Or was it simply easier for transfer from trains from Scotland?
WN25 and WN45 were part of the original scheme. I don't know what the rationale was, but looking at it I think it's less disruptive for arrivals to cross the Up Main once than departures to cross the Down Main twice.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 23/03/2024 at 19:17 #155804
HST125Scorton
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Up to 1200hrs from 0600hrs and have to say, I had my work cut out!. Forgot to mention my day is a Wednesday. Had a little tangle up down the Arpley Junction but soon solved that by restarting 10mins earlier. Will report back when I do the next 4-6hrs when time allows.
Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer
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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 23/03/2024 at 22:18 #155805
bugsy
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I’m still working my way through the 1992 timetable (it’s Friday) and something rather odd has happened.

What I usually do is to create a sticky note with a train’s ID when it requests entry.
At 01:40 0T77 requested entry from Walton MSC Sidings, so I immediately created a sticky note and clicked on it to see the timetable (Screenshot 1) and set a route to Latchford MSC Sidings accordingly.
When it reached Latchford Sidings it was at the buffer stop (screenshot 2). I re-ran the sim a couple of times to see if I could work out what was happening.

It transpires that if you wait for the train to actually arrive at signal 225 at the exit from Walton MSC sidings and then click on the sticky note, you get a different timetable completely which is actually the correct one.

Unfortunately, I didn’t take a screenshot of the correct timetable, but It went behind signal 218 and back into Walton MSC sidings.

Interesting.
.....




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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 23/03/2024 at 23:24 #155808
58050
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That's what T.77 is booked to do. Both T76 & T77 trains when they arrive in Walton MSC Sdgs., they are booked to do a RR move which entails them to come out of the MSC Sdgs at Walton Old Jn & stop behind 218 signal where the driver changes ends before going back into the MSC Sdgs at Walton Old Jn. The only MGR trains that don't RR there or at Latchford Sdgs are the MGR trains to & from Milford WS as the Draw Back Loco t.19 is allocated to pilot them between Walton Old Jn MSC Sdgs or Latchford MSC Sdgs in both directions. If you put a post it note on the panel with a TD & then click on it you won't see the correct timetable listed for the train until it enters the sim. I'd suggest re-loading an earlier snapshot before you see 7T77 going into the MSC Sdgs at Walton Old Jn & then when the loco RR that train should ring out of the MSC Sdgs at Walton Old Jn immeadiately after 7M61 has come out of the same place with T.19 loco taking it to Latchford Sdgs. I'm sure you'll get used to it once you've done it correctly for the 1st time. When 7M61 arrives in the Latchford Sdgs T.19 loco detaches off the front & runs via the Neck to go back to the Loco Sdgs & the train loco is at the right end of the train to depart toweards Fiddlers Ferry PS. 7T77 on the other hand has to RR its train in Latchford MSC Sdgs before it then dearts also for Fiddlers Ferry PS. When both trains come back with their respected empties you do the whole thing again. Arpley Jn panel does get busy at times throughout this TT.
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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 24/03/2024 at 10:54 #155809
bugsy
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Quote from Pascal: "If you put a post it note on the panel with a TD & then click on it you won't see the correct timetable listed for the train until it enters the sim."

This is exactly what I found out - the hard way. And it's now what I do for all trains regardless of whether I need to or not. 😁

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 24/03/2024 at 11:41 #155810
bugsy
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Sorry to be a pain but I've got a problem.

6T75 has exited Springs Branch Sidings and is due to go to Bickershaw Colliery. I've tried to set a route but each time it says "Route not available"

I checked the manual but there's nothing explaining how to set a route to the colliery. I've even tried setting the route in reverse but that didn't work Is it something to do with the 'RESET' button? If not, then what do I need to do please?

I don't think that a save is required but I've attached one anyway.
.....


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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 24/03/2024 at 12:24 #155811
sunocske
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Yes, you have to do the RESET sequence described in the manual, as this is the first train of the day going down the branch and the sim starts as if there was a train on line, but actually wasn't.
Last edited: 24/03/2024 at 12:25 by sunocske
Reason: None given

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 24/03/2024 at 13:27 #155813
postal
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bugsy in post 155810 said:
Sorry to be a pain but I've got a problem.

6T75 has exited Springs Branch Sidings and is due to go to Bickershaw Colliery. I've tried to set a route but each time it says "Route not available"

I checked the manual but there's nothing explaining how to set a route to the colliery. I've even tried setting the route in reverse but that didn't work Is it something to do with the 'RESET' button? If not, then what do I need to do please?

I don't think that a save is required but I've attached one anyway.
.....

The manual explains the procedure for Weaste:

"By default, the OTW is set to Occupied, allowing a train to enter from Weaste. Should you first wish to send a train towards Weaste, or to reset the OTW after a track circuit failure, first, right-click on the OTW reset button. This will begin flashing. After 120 seconds, the OTW reset button will stop flashing. At this point, right click the reset button."

The same principal applies at Bickershaw.

The Manual on the Wiki is locked and I don't have the relevant permission to edit the page so I have passed the request up the tree that the manual be updated accordingly.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 24/03/2024 at 13:28 by postal
Reason: None given

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Warrington Summer 1992 TT 24/03/2024 at 15:56 #155814
bugsy
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postal in post 155813 said:
bugsy in post 155810 said:
Sorry to be a pain but I've got a problem.

6T75 has exited Springs Branch Sidings and is due to go to Bickershaw Colliery. I've tried to set a route but each time it says "Route not available"

I checked the manual but there's nothing explaining how to set a route to the colliery. I've even tried setting the route in reverse but that didn't work Is it something to do with the 'RESET' button? If not, then what do I need to do please?

I don't think that a save is required but I've attached one anyway.
.....

The manual explains the procedure for Weaste:

"By default, the OTW is set to Occupied, allowing a train to enter from Weaste. Should you first wish to send a train towards Weaste, or to reset the OTW after a track circuit failure, first, right-click on the OTW reset button. This will begin flashing. After 120 seconds, the OTW reset button will stop flashing. At this point, right click the reset button."

The same principal applies at Bickershaw.

The Manual on the Wiki is locked and I don't have the relevant permission to edit the page so I have passed the request up the tree that the manual be updated accordingly.
Thanks Postal.

I did click the reset button and as you say it flashes for some time, but I wasn't aware that it had to be pressed a second time, so putting this in the Manual would be helpful to others. 😀
I'll look in the Wiki for the Weaste text.

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