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A little Mock-SimSig Fun!

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 10/11/2021 at 14:08 #142249
clive
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Trainman525 in post 142246 said:
Just one interesting point to mention, at West Worthing crossing, the signallers have an additional button (Not sure if that was there in 2008) that controls the road traffic lights and sets them to red before the crossing is lowered. It certainly is a unique feature.
Doesn't Sleaford have that? Certainly the road signals are standard sequence rather than double flashing reds.

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 10/11/2021 at 15:38 #142251
elltrain3
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Here is the more modern version of West Coastway from 2009 to the modern-day!

The main changes were:
- Barnham (Mechanical) box was abolished in late 2008 and a new signal box opened with a new layout! the only new/removed signals were the connection to the yard from the Portsmouth end and a new signal installed on the Down Portsmouth to allow routes back to Brighton. Yapton AHB was also converted to a MCB-CCTV crossing in 2019 though I've included it in a "modern" era for simplicity.
- Bognor's unique IB was abolished around the same time being replaced by the more conventional one, and the Down-home replaced. (All rodding was also removed though this doesn't impact simsig)
- The Horsham line was very much changed with Angmering, Pulborough and Billingshurst were abolished and although all 3 still stand (Amberley and Pulborough in the original spots, and Billingshurst preserved elsewhere) the control of their areas is now under the control of Three Bridges (T) and is rather boring though the crossovers at Pulborough and Billingshurst were retained and new signals installed for trains to turn back.
-


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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 10/11/2021 at 17:54 #142253
bill_gensheet
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Trainman525 in post 142246 said:
Just one interesting point to mention, at West Worthing crossing, the signallers have an additional button (Not sure if that was there in 2008) that controls the road traffic lights and sets them to red before the crossing is lowered. It certainly is a unique feature.

There's been some mentions elsewhere of rail controlled road lights, and so far noted at
Altrincham (when it had gates)
Somewhere in Cardiff docks
and (sort of) the Connel Bridge when still in rail use.

Bill

Bill

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 10/11/2021 at 19:16 #142254
Steamer
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bill_gensheet in post 142253 said:
Trainman525 in post 142246 said:
Just one interesting point to mention, at West Worthing crossing, the signallers have an additional button (Not sure if that was there in 2008) that controls the road traffic lights and sets them to red before the crossing is lowered. It certainly is a unique feature.

There's been some mentions elsewhere of rail controlled road lights, and so far noted at
Altrincham (when it had gates)
Somewhere in Cardiff docks
and (sort of) the Connel Bridge when still in rail use.

Bill

Bill
Ramsbottom on the East Lancs also has them, to stop traffic before the (wheel worked) gates are swung out.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 11/11/2021 at 01:00 #142255
DaveHarries
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Trainman525 in post 142246 said:
Hopefully one day a West Coastway sim will exist. We can only hope though. Thanks for making the dream visual.

I am hoping for that too: would be good if Havant ASC, which covers Havant and Portsmouth, was released at the same time too.

Dave

Last edited: 11/11/2021 at 01:02 by DaveHarries
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 11/11/2021 at 12:09 #142259
elltrain3
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I wondered if Havant ASC, Petersfield etc would be attached to the end of the Portsmouth sim?
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 14/11/2021 at 22:35 #142333
Trainman525
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elltrain3 in post 142259 said:
I wondered if Havant ASC, Petersfield etc would be attached to the end of the Portsmouth sim?
Currently, Havant ASC controls Portsmouth Harbour to just before Petersfield and Just after Fareham to just after Emsworth.

I imagine if Havant ASC was created it would replace the Portsmouth sim in the same way Three Bridges replaces Brighton.

Last edited: 14/11/2021 at 22:36 by Trainman525
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 14/11/2021 at 22:45 #142334
headshot119
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Havant ASC is also fairly unique, one of the only examples of the Siemens Vicos OC VDU systems in the UK.

I think there was one other as well, possibly Bournemouth.

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 14/11/2021 at 22:47 #142335
DaveHarries
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elltrain3 in post 142259 said:
I wondered if Havant ASC, Petersfield etc would be attached to the end of the Portsmouth sim?

I read a while back that plans are afoot for abolition of Petersfield due to the box being in the way of a refurbishment of the level crossing. A group has been formed which is campaigning to see the box, which is Grade II listed, preserved. Petersfield will be done by a panel from Basingstoke ASC which will be of the same type as the Salisbury to Exeter ones.

I don't know if the plan is for the new Petersfield panel to take over Haslemere area too (another nice box: it would be a shame to see the end of it). There is an article on the Petersfield Post website from 11th October 2020 - https://www.petersfieldpost.co.uk/article.cfm?id=126663&searchyear=2020 - which says that the new signalling setup from Basingstoke is planned to be completed in 2023.

Dave

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 15/11/2021 at 01:08 #142336
elltrain3
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headshot119 in post 142334 said:
Havant ASC is also fairly unique, one of the only examples of the Siemens Vicos OC VDU systems in the UK.

I think there was one other as well, possibly Bournemouth.
Well, I didn't know that! I've not managed to find a single photo of the inside of Havant ASC so wouldn't know what system it uses!

and yeah I saw the Petersfield box fundraiser the box is an original LB&SCR one IIRC? wonder how they are getting on with funds, and is it going to Basingstoke Panel? I thought Basingstoke was a "ROC" style these days and the Panel was replaced by the VDU(?) system.

But I agree dave be a shame to see them go! Levers are a very rare breed down that way now, as I recall Farncombe has a box too though that's just switches these days.

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 15/11/2021 at 09:52 #142337
kbarber
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headshot119 in post 142334 said:
Havant ASC is also fairly unique, one of the only examples of the Siemens Vicos OC VDU systems in the UK.

I think there was one other as well, possibly Bournemouth.
That's right. Bournemouth was the first of the breed and, from what I understand of the mess that was the Havant commissioning, there seems little likelihood of there being more.

I believe Bournemouth was also somewhat of a troubled scheme. Originally conceived as the 'Dorset Coast' resignalling, intended to take over the entirety of Bournemouth to Weymouth, apparently by the time it was installed the wags were referring to it as 'Bournemouth Seafront'.

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 15/11/2021 at 22:41 #142344
DaveHarries
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elltrain3 in post 142336 said:
I thought Basingstoke was a "ROC" style these days and the Panel was replaced by the VDU(?) system.

Some idea here Ell. I did SimSig-style mock-ups of the WoE panel (which I posted to this thread) and also of the mainline panel: I based those mock-ups on photos available at https://photos.signalling.org/index?/category/28-basingstoke_new

Dave

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 16/11/2021 at 01:22 #142345
kaiwhara
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elltrain3 in post 142336 said:
I thought Basingstoke was a "ROC" style these days and the Panel was replaced by the VDU(?) system.
No. It never has been for the areas controlled by Basingstoke Panel, Poole - Wool and West of England. The former Feltham areas are VDU though.

Sorry guys, I am in the business of making people wait!
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 18/11/2021 at 16:56 #142367
elltrain3
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So it Time to show a mock I've been making for ageees but it's only now been finished!
It's Time for Liverpool Street IECC From the Liverpool St Fringe & Stratford to Shenfield, Southend, Southmiter and Marks Tey!
Including Upminster, Braintree & Sudbury Branches.

there are 2 Eras:
Pre 2016 before Crossrail came and before most Major ALterations to the layout
and 2016 - Present with all the Crossrail changes added plus the MAJOR track alterations at Shenfield and Gidea Park

We Start in Stratford in east London, the former heart of the Great eastern network! the line goes to 6 tracks from Liverpool Street and B-Di is available on all Platforms here, we are also joined by the lines from the North London Line controlled by Stratford (2016) and Liverpool Street NLL Workstation (2016-Present) then the Lea Valley Line leaves us through Platforms 11 & 12 (this is included on the NLL)
Also here in the modern era we see the Crossrail portals appear and join, plenty of small signals were added though are simply just filling gaps.

We then head along past Fores Gate Junction where the chord(s) to Upminster leave us.

We then Hit Ilford where the layout changes and the Electric (Slow) Lines crossover the Main lines and swap sides via a flyover. There is also a small fan of CS at Aldersbrook. In the modern era Platform, 5 was abolished due to P4 being Lengthened in preparations for the arrival of Crossrail Longer trains.
Then we hit the Longsight of the East, Ilford CS! where the Bulk of the Anglia Fleet is maintained and would be a busy junction at all hours of the day!

The minor change at Chadwell Heath is work noting, as it gains a Reversing siding in the later era presumably for Crossrail Services?

Next comes Romford, and the layout is simple just a Loop, Engineers sidings, the shuttle to Upminster and a few X-Overs
In the modern era the loop was abolished and platforms extended but not too much else changed.

Now For Gidea Park which again has turn-back facilities as well as some more CS, in the modern era all 4 CS were made controlled as can be seen, and some more signals and TC's added to improve flexibility.

Brentwood also like a lot of stations had a turnback signal commissioned! in the later era.

Next is the 2nd major point of the sim at Shenfield, where the eras are radically different.
Old:
Prior to the upgrades it had a layout showing that most trains turned back and with separate CS, 2 Reversing sidings and limited flexibility with just 2 platforms for shuttles from Liverpool street and a chord for Southend bound trains.
New:
The modern era changed the station rather a lot. The CS & Reversing sidings vanished, Pointwork was re-laid to provide the best amount of flexibility. a new platform commissioned (6) and 3 new CS added for TFL services so the layout is now much better and does look good!

Now we follow the "branch" to Southend, where we see the start of the lesser form of Bi-Di working (can't remember the name of it) that is rather in-flexible. and has long sections without signals, we pass Billericay and its X-Overs before hitting Wickford, where 2 Country bays and 2 sidings are evident and is fairly simple really, also leaving us here is the Southminster branch which is a simple single track with a passing loop!

Finally, after passing plenty of X-overs and stations we pass Southend Airport and it's tripwire which would be a "game over" scenario as far as Southend is concerned. But we then pass into Southend Victoria (the 4th station in Southend! with central and East being on the CSC network, and Airport on this line)
Southend is a simple 4 track station with no less than 4 sets of Carriage sidings!

Now for the "MAIN" line which takes us past firstly Ingatestone and the lowly Gate Box there which slots all of our routes over the 2 CCTV crossings it overseas.
notice how the Bi-Di here is more "Advanced" and is rather more useable in disruption than the Southend variant. passing Ingatestone (with auto's all the way through) we then reach Chelsmford where the station is on a curve and crosses a viaduct! hence all the Banner Repeaters. There is a small yard here plus a nice loop for looping trains.

Finally, we reach Witham a simple 4 track Bi-Di station with the simple Braintree Branch and Marks Tey a simple 2 track station the sidings a Loop and the little branch to Sudbury!

This took ages to make and constructive criticism is welcome :)




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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 18/11/2021 at 19:17 #142368
Albert
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There are some typos in the line names, such as the Catpenters (=Carpenters) Curve, two Up Electric lines at Manor Park, and the Passanger Avoiding Lines (Up at Manor Park, Down at Ilford) need to be Passenger Avoiding.

Edit: same applies to the Passenger Loop at Shenfield but only in the old era. Also in the old era, are you sure the points at Sheffield West are correctly displayed? The crossovers don't seem to be useful for any route.

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Last edited: 18/11/2021 at 19:24 by Albert
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 18/11/2021 at 21:38 #142374
elltrain3
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Yep fixed them! and yeah apologies with Shenfield! I added them in wrong but clearly didn't notice all fixed now!




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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 18/11/2021 at 22:47 #142375
Joe S
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Beautiful work!

A few memories and additional info that may prove useful or interesting...

Ilford depot is indeed very busy, with responsibility for TfL 345s (Bombardier), numerous Greater Anglia trains cleaned in the main train shed with its 12 roads and a huge set of roads outside too. They also have the occasional visitor from the rest of the UK network due to one bit of the depot being operated by Bombardier (now Alstom).

A steady stream of trains leave from Liv St from around 0830 until 1030 or so, as well as a number of trains arriving at the country end too. Aldersbrook CS are also full overnight.

Chadwell Heath gained the turnback, I'd imagine as a replacement for platform 5 at the station. It's very handy during disruption as trains can be turned there.

Romford is simple, but there's a double shunt for a LO train from Ilford CS to get on the Upminster branch in the early morning around 0600 or so.

Brentwood gained the turnback signal on platform 4 around 2015/16 while platform 6 was being constructed at Shenfield, which needed a full closure of the electric lines for a few weeks, if memory serves well.

Prior to Shenfield's platform 6, two CS sidings, known as Hack Sidings, were used to stable class 315s to the west of the station.

The bi-di on the Southend line is a massive pain during disruption as it causes no end of delays. It's a busy line (20 min service off-peak, 10 mins peak) and delays quickly rack up.

At Wickford, as of summer 2021, platform 1 bay has been extended so 720s can use the line for the shuttle service to Southminster and platform 4 is no longer in use for these trains.

Southend's CS are large, one set starting almost as far back as Prittlewell, divided into four - down and up south and north. I believe it has over 20 trains there overnight on a standard evening, though some trains can be berthed in the station.

I believe Shenfield workstation includes the Southend line as well as Shenfield itself.

On the mainline, Ingatestone loop is used in the pre-PM peak for 'school buster' trains as there is a big secondary school there.

Witham, too, has (had?) a cheeky morning splitter - the front to Harwich if memory serves, and the rear to Braintree.

The whole area, as is Liv St and West Anglia, is ARS equipped.

I believe the workstation boundaries need to be changed a little though: Shenfield w/s which runs down to Southend and fringes with Witham w/s in the mainline direction.
Witham w/s covers from London end of Ingatestone to the boundary of Colchester ASC just beyond Marks Tey.

HTH!

Last edited: 18/11/2021 at 23:21 by Joe S
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 19/11/2021 at 08:31 #142377
Albert
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Osoubne Road = Osbourne Road? (near Emerson Park)
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 19/11/2021 at 09:32 #142378
kbarber
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Good work. Others have picked up most of the issues, I think, although it might be worth double-checking Carpenters Curve - my father always referred to it as Carpenters Road Curve. But Channelsea Junctions need expanding a bit - the NLL from platforms 1 & 2 join at Channelsea South Junction then the High Meads Curve heads off east at Channelsea North Junction, to form a triangle with the line shown joining at Lea Junction. That part of the world is a real tangle... just imagine what it was like when you also had the access to Stratford Freightliner Terminal and Carpenters Road was double-track.

There is an up direction signal (possibly a fixed red light, otherwise it must read right through to the Gas Factory Curve at Bow Junction) on the Down Electric just London side of Pudding Mill Junction.

Hope that's useful. This would be quite a job to handle, I think.

I'd still love to see the 1949 layouts simulated - I reckon that was the first true modern railway, with overhead electrification, routesetting panels & fully-automatic train describers. Oh well, a dinosaur can dream... LOL

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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 19/11/2021 at 12:15 #142379
elltrain3
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Joe S in post 142375 said:
Beautiful work!

A few memories and additional info that may prove useful or interesting...

Ilford depot is indeed very busy, with responsibility for TfL 345s (Bombardier), numerous Greater Anglia trains cleaned in the main train shed with its 12 roads and a huge set of roads outside too. They also have the occasional visitor from the rest of the UK network due to one bit of the depot being operated by Bombardier (now Alstom).

A steady stream of trains leave from Liv St from around 0830 until 1030 or so, as well as a number of trains arriving at the country end too. Aldersbrook CS are also full overnight.

Chadwell Heath gained the turnback, I'd imagine as a replacement for platform 5 at the station. It's very handy during disruption as trains can be turned there.

Romford is simple, but there's a double shunt for a LO train from Ilford CS to get on the Upminster branch in the early morning around 0600 or so.

Brentwood gained the turnback signal on platform 4 around 2015/16 while platform 6 was being constructed at Shenfield, which needed a full closure of the electric lines for a few weeks, if memory serves well.

Prior to Shenfield's platform 6, two CS sidings, known as Hack Sidings, were used to stable class 315s to the west of the station.

The bi-di on the Southend line is a massive pain during disruption as it causes no end of delays. It's a busy line (20 min service off-peak, 10 mins peak) and delays quickly rack up.

At Wickford, as of summer 2021, platform 1 bay has been extended so 720s can use the line for the shuttle service to Southminster and platform 4 is no longer in use for these trains.

Southend's CS are large, one set starting almost as far back as Prittlewell, divided into four - down and up south and north. I believe it has over 20 trains there overnight on a standard evening, though some trains can be berthed in the station.

I believe Shenfield workstation includes the Southend line as well as Shenfield itself.

On the mainline, Ingatestone loop is used in the pre-PM peak for 'school buster' trains as there is a big secondary school there.

Witham, too, has (had?) a cheeky morning splitter - the front to Harwich if memory serves, and the rear to Braintree.

The whole area, as is Liv St and West Anglia, is ARS equipped.

I believe the workstation boundaries need to be changed a little though: Shenfield w/s which runs down to Southend and fringes with Witham w/s in the mainline direction.
Witham w/s covers from London end of Ingatestone to the boundary of Colchester ASC just beyond Marks Tey.

HTH!
Lovely Stuff, It certainly is a big area and would make for some interesting chains with West Anglia & Liverpool Street!

Yeah, the workstations I mainly made for playability as a pose to the real ones, I can correct them happily but thought having someone doing the Shenfield and then another doing Southend then someone else doing the smaller areas made more sense to share the workload especially in big chains.

and yep I'll Get Osbourne done

and oh yeah forgot about the "road" I'll try and get that added. and Channelsea is merely a visual for approaching trains the area is controlled from the NLL sim and if you look at my mock for that you'll see all of that side of the Triangle simulated there, even though it's worked from the same IECC.

and I'll get that signal added, is pudding mill lane where the XR services join?

and yeah ARS would be included as per real life too but would still be rather difficult solo, be on a similar level to running London Bridge Solo I feel!


and if you can find me diagrams, and plans for the area in 1949 I could have a go xD




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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 19/11/2021 at 12:23 #142380
bill_gensheet
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kbarber in post 142378 said:
But Channelsea Junctions need expanding a bit - the NLL from platforms 1 & 2 join at Channelsea South Junction then the High Meads Curve heads off east at Channelsea North Junction, to form a triangle with the line shown joining at Lea Junction. That part of the world is a real tangle... just imagine what it was like when you also had the access to Stratford Freightliner Terminal and Carpenters Road was double-track.
A fair bit of that was 'in' the old NLL sim, so depends on the view of what a 'GE outer' sim might actually contain. Maybe would only be indicative 'open line' graphics.

To add a couple:
Thornton Fields should turn out to up TM/Bow as awell as down TM/Bow line (Quail 2006)

Chelmsford trainling XO is hard on the platform end.
The banner is back to back with the P2 up signal on the platform end
https://goo.gl/maps/dKiFg2UQExsQqQ8p7
The viaduct is all west of that.

Down line Hatfield Peverel to Witham aspect sequence is out. You only see a green from the platforms is the route is set into the main platform. Was handy for knowing when a Braintree train was coming (ie staying out of the rain as long as possible but still getting along to the empty carriages !)

See attached

Bill


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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 19/11/2021 at 12:47 #142381
elltrain3
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Yeah, I saw "GE Outer" as the Great eastern side so channelsea comes under the NLL, and yep I'll get those fixed after lunch!
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 19/11/2021 at 13:08 #142382
Joe S
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I'd say GE inner is Liv St to Marks Tey, outer is Colchester ASC's area: Colchester to Norwich and everything in between.
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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 19/11/2021 at 17:05 #142388
elltrain3
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bill_gensheet in post 142380 said:
kbarber in post 142378 said:
But Channelsea Junctions need expanding a bit - the NLL from platforms 1 & 2 join at Channelsea South Junction then the High Meads Curve heads off east at Channelsea North Junction, to form a triangle with the line shown joining at Lea Junction. That part of the world is a real tangle... just imagine what it was like when you also had the access to Stratford Freightliner Terminal and Carpenters Road was double-track.
A fair bit of that was 'in' the old NLL sim, so depends on the view of what a 'GE outer' sim might actually contain. Maybe would only be indicative 'open line' graphics.

To add a couple:
Thornton Fields should turn out to up TM/Bow as awell as down TM/Bow line (Quail 2006)

Chelmsford trainling XO is hard on the platform end.
The banner is back to back with the P2 up signal on the platform end
https://goo.gl/maps/dKiFg2UQExsQqQ8p7
The viaduct is all west of that.

Down line Hatfield Peverel to Witham aspect sequence is out. You only see a green from the platforms is the route is set into the main platform. Was handy for knowing when a Braintree train was coming (ie staying out of the rain as long as possible but still getting along to the empty carriages !)

See attached

Bill

Got those all changed!




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A little Mock-SimSig Fun! 19/11/2021 at 17:22 #142390
Steamer
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kbarber in post 142337 said:
headshot119 in post 142334 said:
Havant ASC is also fairly unique, one of the only examples of the Siemens Vicos OC VDU systems in the UK.

I think there was one other as well, possibly Bournemouth.
That's right. Bournemouth was the first of the breed and, from what I understand of the mess that was the Havant commissioning, there seems little likelihood of there being more.

I believe Bournemouth was also somewhat of a troubled scheme. Originally conceived as the 'Dorset Coast' resignalling, intended to take over the entirety of Bournemouth to Weymouth, apparently by the time it was installed the wags were referring to it as 'Bournemouth Seafront'.
As I understand it, Bournemouth and Havant used Siemens' own design, and along with Ansaldo at Manchester South they struggled massively to get it to work to UK principles. All borne out of a desire by Railtrack to "go out to the market".

Ansaldo didn't come back until 2016. Siemens became a major supplier by virtue of buying Westinghouse.

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Last edited: 19/11/2021 at 17:32 by Steamer
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