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All RAIB Reports 06/04/2016 at 17:05 #81663
GeoffM
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RAIB has today released its report into a passenger train derailment at Godmersham, Kent, 26 July 2015.

R052016_Godmersham.pdf
Never got why the UK wasn't big on installing cow catchers.
Fences. Normally they're sufficient - in fact I don't recall a mooltiple animal event causing a derailment for quite some time before this.

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Last edited: 06/04/2016 at 17:14 by GeoffM
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All RAIB Reports 06/04/2016 at 17:19 #81664
kbarber
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RAIB has today released its report into a passenger train derailment at Godmersham, Kent, 26 July 2015.

R052016_Godmersham.pdf
Never got why the UK wasn't big on installing cow catchers.

I think it's these things called fences.

By the way, don't blame the railway for all the fences. Parliament, in its infinite wisdome, required that the railway be fenced along its entire length for the purpose not of keeping livestock out but for keeping trains in! (Neither the first nor the last time that our representatives have shown themselves ignorant of the technicalities...) Needless to say, the party in power at the time the first railways were constructed represented primarily the landed interests rather than those of the industrialists.

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All RAIB Reports 06/04/2016 at 17:22 #81665
kbarber
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RAIB has today released its report into a passenger train derailment at Godmersham, Kent, 26 July 2015.

R052016_Godmersham.pdf
Never got why the UK wasn't big on installing cow catchers.
Fences. Normally they're sufficient - in fact I don't recall a mooltiple animal event causing a derailment for quite some time before this.
I've an idea Polmont was the last (30th July 1984), though I think that may have been a single rather than a multiple animal.

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All RAIB Reports 06/04/2016 at 17:41 #81666
Danny252
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From the RAIB report, there was a similar derailment at Letterston Junction in 2012, and an incident in 2015 when a train struck cows and came to a stop, and was then derailed when attempting to move clear of the cows. It also notes a derailment with a fatality in Germany in 2012 (the wording might imply this is the only accident of a similar nature with fatalities since Polmont?).
Last edited: 06/04/2016 at 17:42 by Danny252
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All RAIB Reports 06/04/2016 at 17:48 #81668
KymriskaDraken
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" said:
" said:
" said:
RAIB has today released its report into a passenger train derailment at Godmersham, Kent, 26 July 2015.

R052016_Godmersham.pdf
Never got why the UK wasn't big on installing cow catchers.
Fences. Normally they're sufficient - in fact I don't recall a mooltiple animal event causing a derailment for quite some time before this.
I think this may be due, at least in part, to the Rule change post-Polmont. Before that accident trains were allowed to run at caution with any sort of animals on the line; afterwards the job gets stopped for any large animal within the boundary fence, whether it is immediately endangering trains or not.


Kev

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All RAIB Reports 18/04/2016 at 18:08 #81909
AndyG
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RAIB has today released its report into a tram collision with a pedestrian near Market Street tram stop, Manchester, 12 May 2015.

R062016_160412_Market_Street.pdf

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All RAIB Reports 19/04/2016 at 18:05 #81918
Jersey_Mike
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Wait, so every time a tram has a fender bender on surface streets the RIAB investigates? What about a trolleybus?
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All RAIB Reports 19/04/2016 at 19:24 #81920
pedroathome
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Wait, so every time a tram has a fender bender on surface streets the RIAB investigates? What about a trolleybus?
It was a rail incident, the Rail Accident Investigation Branch investigated. Dare I say it, in this country (The UK) we take our rail safety seriousally

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All RAIB Reports 19/04/2016 at 19:53 #81921
Steamer
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Wait, so every time a tram has a fender bender on surface streets the RIAB investigates? What about a trolleybus?
It was a rail incident, the Rail Accident Investigation Branch investigated. Dare I say it, in this country (The UK) we take our rail safety seriousally
The RAIB is notified of any incidents where either injury or damage to trains/infrastructure occurred, or had the potential to occur. The notification guidelines can be found online.

They then decide whether or not a full investigation and report is required; in this case they decided it was necessary. Not all incidents receive a full investigation.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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All RAIB Reports 19/04/2016 at 23:08 #81924
RainbowNines
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There are several tram/person collisions a year on the Metrolink (the report alludes to this) - it seems the focus in this case was not only about the collision, but also the response of the company after the incident.

For example, because the supervisor had to drive the tram back to the depot, the tram driver in the incident ended up driving the supervisor's van back - not ideal for a bloke who is likely to be shaken up, really.

EDIT: It seems like they've also taken the opportunity to comment on the more general "shared space" designs - the rather notorious part of Manchester City Centre this took place in is one of the oldest implementations of shared space in the "new age" of trams (I'm sure there's a snazzier name...) - looking back through the catalogue, there aren't many examples of reports where shared space "solutions" were a direct consequence.

Last edited: 19/04/2016 at 23:14 by RainbowNines
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All RAIB Reports 20/04/2016 at 11:44 #81927
Jersey_Mike
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It was a rail incident, the Rail Accident Investigation Branch investigated. Dare I say it, in this country (The UK) we take our rail safety seriousally
Well yes, but lifts run on rails to. What about rubber tyred peoplemovers?

I guess that I'm also assuming there isn't a Bus Accident Investigation Board, when there probably is

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All RAIB Reports 20/04/2016 at 12:50 #81928
320322
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" said:

It was a rail incident, the Rail Accident Investigation Branch investigated. Dare I say it, in this country (The UK) we take our rail safety seriousally
Well yes, but lifts run on rails to. What about rubber tyred peoplemovers?

I guess that I'm also assuming there isn't a Bus Accident Investigation Board, when there probably is :unsure:
Bus Accident Investigation Board - Commonly known in the UK as the Police and their various departments!

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All RAIB Reports 20/04/2016 at 12:51 #81929
jc92
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" said:
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It was a rail incident, the Rail Accident Investigation Branch investigated. Dare I say it, in this country (The UK) we take our rail safety seriousally
Well yes, but lifts run on rails to. What about rubber tyred peoplemovers?

I guess that I'm also assuming there isn't a Bus Accident Investigation Board, when there probably is :unsure:
RAIB cover heavy and light rail so guided busways and lifts don't qualify (I suppose Monorails like at beaulieu might qualify). I don't know who investigates Road traffic accidents but we have the AAIB for air accidents aswell.

Last edited: 20/04/2016 at 12:52 by jc92
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All RAIB Reports 20/04/2016 at 13:59 #81930
RainbowNines
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And MAIB for Marine incidents.

We've had this discussion before Mike. There's much to be gleaned from an accident. You need an independent investigation organisation to get the most from them.

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All RAIB Reports 20/04/2016 at 15:06 #81931
Jersey_Mike
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And MAIB for Marine incidents.

We've had this discussion before Mike. There's much to be gleaned from an accident. You need an independent investigation organisation to get the most from them.
This is a different discussion regarding jurisdiction. It can be argued that a tram has more in common with a bus, safety wise, than an HST, so tram lines would be better covered by a transit safety investigation office, or perhaps a national transportation safety group that doesn't have to get into a turf battle with the elevator inspection office over the definition of a cable hauled funicular as rail transport. :dry:

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All RAIB Reports 20/04/2016 at 15:27 #81933
RainbowNines
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Per guidance issued by RAIB regarding the Railway and Transport Safety Act 2003 (which established the branch):

(Part of Paragraph 7)

Quote:
The scope of the railways and tramways covered includes
... tramways (the duty to investigate serious accidents does not apply to tramways, however the RAIB has discretion to investigate any accident or incident which occurs on a tramway)
As I already wrote above, RAIB can and will investigate these incidents where they feel learning points can be taken from it.

Not every single incident is investigated. If you care to have a look at the report, figure 11 on page 25 shows a chart of tram/pedestrian collisions on the Metrolink over the period 2004-14. The chart isn't entirely clear but there are over 50. Only two have been investigated in that time.

As for cable hauled railways, the Act clearly defines those over 1km in length as falling within the scope of RAIB. So there's that...

Heritage railways that cross a carriageway (why that quirk exists I don't know) are also in scope, so I would infer that the Beaulieu monorail doesn't count. (EDIT: in fact, the guidance specifically refers to the 2005 Regulations, which qualifies scope to exclude railways not crossing a carriageway "such as those which are part of a museum, within a funfair or amusement Park, or in private gardens")

EDIT2: And paragraph 28 of that document says thus:

Quote:
Although accidents and incidents affecting tramways fall within the remit of the RAIB, Section 7(2) enables the Chief Inspector of Rail Accidents to exercise discretion when considering whether or not to investigate a serious accident on a tramway. This is because tramways run in various types of alignment: on street, alongside a highway or off street. The investigation of a collision affecting a road running part of a tramway would normally fall to the police, whilst an accident affecting an off street running part of a tramway would normally be investigated by the RAIB. However, the Chief Inspector of Rail Accidents may direct the RAIB to conduct a parallel investigation to the police if there are potential safety lessons to be learnt which could be disseminated to the industry.

Last edited: 20/04/2016 at 15:37 by RainbowNines
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All RAIB Reports 20/04/2016 at 19:24 #81934
Jersey_Mike
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Oh good, it's more sensible than I had assumed.
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All RAIB Reports 21/04/2016 at 07:46 #81939
Harsig
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" said:

...

Heritage railways that cross a carriageway (why that quirk exists I don't know) ...

I've always understood that in the UK construction of a railway only required parliamentary authority for two reasons:

  1. To convey to the company compulsory purchase powers for the land needed to construct the railway

  2. To authorise the new railway to cross public highways



A railway that did not require either of the above could be built without parliamentary authority and was thus presumably exempt from having to comply with subsequent parliamentary railway legislation. This is presumably why only Heritage railways that cross a carriageway are included in the RAIB's scope of investigation.

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All RAIB Reports 21/04/2016 at 08:28 #81940
jc92
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What doesnt make sense with that is that the GCR has had two RAIB investigations but has no level crossings.

Does "carriageway" include occupation crossings and does "cross" include bridges or just level crossings?

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All RAIB Reports 21/04/2016 at 12:43 #81942
RainbowNines
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Very good point. That one I don't know. Maybe refers to the railway in its original form, on grounds that pretty much every railway will have or has had a crossing of the highway? The initial law for RAIB was only passed in 2003 (with regulations following in 2005)

I've had a look at the Loughborough 37 runaway report and there's no special treatment or mention of it, which implies it's not been investigated under different rules.

Last edited: 21/04/2016 at 12:44 by RainbowNines
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All RAIB Reports 21/04/2016 at 16:54 #81949
Harsig
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" said:


Does "carriageway" include occupation crossings and does "cross" include bridges or just level crossings?
I've always understood it to mean any form of crossing whether it be level crossing, bridge or even tunnel.

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All RAIB Reports 21/04/2016 at 18:43 #81950
Jersey_Mike
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Do footpaths, bridleways and byways all count as carriageways? I know you have very specific definitions for those terms.
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All RAIB Reports 21/04/2016 at 20:56 #81952
RainbowNines
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I would take the definition to mean any right of way - pretty sure that extends to bridleways etc in most cases.
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All RAIB Reports 05/05/2016 at 10:54 #82150
JamesN
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The RAIB has released its report into a Dangerous Occurence at Wootton Bassett Jn, Wiltshire

R082016 160515 Wootton Bassett.pdf

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All RAIB Reports 13/05/2016 at 16:16 #82308
AndyG
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"RAIB has today released its report into a runaway and collision at Bryn station, Wigan, 27 November 2014."

R092016_160509_Bryn.pdf

One that got missed:-

Collision between a train and a tractor at Oakwood Farm User Worked Crossing, Knaresborough, 14 May 2015

R072016_160428_Oakwood_Farm.pdf

I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
Last edited: 13/05/2016 at 18:51 by AndyG
Reason: R072016

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